Middle East Conflict

[Manchester33]

What absolute tosh. Go and educate yourself about Hamas.

This Israeli government are as bad as any other regime that wilfully kills children and innocents.

 

[west didsblue]

This Israeli government are just as bad as Hamas.

I’ve not held back in my criticism of Netanyahu and his government before and during this, and his focus on supporting illegal settler activity on the West Bank no doubt contributed to the lack of readiness of the IDF to repel the incursion from Gaza, and for that he is complicit in the scale of the Hamas slaughter.

So yes, he’s a **** and hopefully once this is over the Israeli people will get rid of him. There certainly now appears to be a realisation amongst most of the Israeli public that his policies are doing the opposite of keeping people safe and he is being blamed by many for the negligence and personal agendas that allowed it to happen. Hopefully a new government will have a more progressive approach to the problem.

Sadly the Gazans are not in a position to get rid of Hamas because they actually do live in an area administered by tyrants with no democratic means of changing it so Israel will have to do it instead with the consequent suffering of the civilians living there. I wish there was an alternative but organised opposition to Hamas in Gaza was crushed years ago so there’s no prospect of the Palestinians getting rid of them themselves.

 

[Vic]

From Haaretz (paywall)

Israeli Peace Activists Who Lost Loved Ones in the Hamas Massacre Stand Their Ground​

Many of the victims of the Hamas pogrom and their family members were and continue to be peace activists. The surviving relatives now have to deal not only with profound grief and dread, but also with hateful comments; but their personal tragedy hasn't changed their dovish stance. On the contrary...

The article is about the stance of the children of Yakovi and Bilha Inon who were killed on 7th October.

The comments - presumably mostly from Israelis - could almost be lifted from this thread.

 

[Ducado]

I’ve not held back in my criticism of Netanyahu and his government before and during this, and his focus on supporting illegal settler activity on the West Bank no doubt contributed to the lack of readiness of the IDF to repel the incursion from Gaza, and for that he is complicit in the scale of the Hamas slaughter.

So yes, he’s a **** and hopefully once this is over the Israeli people will get rid of him. There certainly now appears to be a realisation amongst most of the Israeli public that his policies are doing the opposite of keeping people safe and he is being blamed by many for the negligence and personal agendas that allowed it to happen. Hopefully a new government will have a more progressive approach to the problem.

Sadly the Gazans are not in a position to get rid of Hamas because they actually do live in an area administered by tyrants with no democratic means of changing it so Israel will have to do it instead with the consequent suffering of the civilians living there. I wish there was an alternative but organised opposition to Hamas in Gaza was crushed years ago so there’s no prospect of the Palestinians getting rid of them themselves.

But it’s counterproductive without offering something better, get rid of Hamas (which is doubtful anyway) kill tens of thousands of innocent people and then continue to blockade the place, you have to admit making Gaza into an open air prison camp has exacerbated the situation it’s just going to happen again

More seriously America has lost any semblance of moral authority in the region, the phone lines to the state department will be Red hot, there may even be some instability caused to allies

There’s only one winner in this and it’s Iran, the only Muslim country to remotely challenge Israel, the Mullahs will be laughing all the way to the bank

 

[Ducado]

I definitely think we are at or close to the tipping point when America says enough, Biden has really set them back in terms of showing an even hand, unless he can pull a rabbit out the hat

But the right wing nuts in Israel continue to take the piss on the West Bank, you would think the yanks would pressure them to stop the brutality and murder, the rest of the world is seething at the injustice of it all, Hamas are an evil bunch of thugs and so are the settlers they are both driven by religious ideology and both must be defeated

 

[west didsblue]

But it’s counterproductive without offering something better, get rid of Hamas (which is doubtful anyway) kill tens of thousands of innocent people and then continue to blockade the place, you have to admit making Gaza into an open air prison camp has exacerbated the situation it’s just going to happen again

More seriously America has lost any semblance of moral authority in the region, the phone lines to the state department will be Red hot, there may even be some instability caused to allies

There’s only one winner in this and it’s Iran, the only Muslim country to remotely challenge Israel, the Mullahs will be laughing all the way to the bank

Can’t really argue with that other than to say leaving Hamas in power effectively hands them a victory and keeps the conflict going ad infinitum. That’s not to say that trying to eradicate them is a great idea either. Israel are stuck between a rock and a hard place with no easy solution, and the Gazans are stuck with either being governed by tyrants or seeing much of their territory flattened in the attempt to rid them of Hamas.
I don’t know the answer.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I’ve not held back in my criticism of Netanyahu and his government before and during this, and his focus on supporting illegal settler activity on the West Bank no doubt contributed to the lack of readiness of the IDF to repel the incursion from Gaza, and for that he is complicit in the scale of the Hamas slaughter.

So yes, he’s a **** and hopefully once this is over the Israeli people will get rid of him. There certainly now appears to be a realisation amongst most of the Israeli public that his policies are doing the opposite of keeping people safe and he is being blamed by many for the negligence and personal agendas that allowed it to happen. Hopefully a new government will have a more progressive approach to the problem.

Sadly the Gazans are not in a position to get rid of Hamas because they actually do live in an area administered by tyrants with no democratic means of changing it so Israel will have to do it instead with the consequent suffering of the civilians living there. I wish there was an alternative but organised opposition to Hamas in Gaza was crushed years ago so there’s no prospect of the Palestinians getting rid of them themselves.

Great Post.
So true.

 

[Ducado]

Can’t really argue with that other than to say leaving Hamas in power effectively hands them a victory and keeps the conflict going ad infinitum. That’s not to say that trying to eradicate them is a great idea either. Israel are stuck between a rock and a hard place with no easy solution, and the Gazans are stuck with either being governed by tyrants or seeing much of their territory flattened in the attempt to rid them of Hamas.
I don’t know the answer.

I think some sort of deal like a cease fire negotiated by Qatar perhaps coupled with disarmament overseen by a neutral country, and an agreement for some form of democratic vote for the people of Gaza

But it’s also time the Arab nations got a grip of the PA, they are weak and corrupt and ineffective, it’s a breeding ground for radical groups, unfortunately the best alternative and most popular leader would be Bagruti (spelling) but the Israelis jailed him some time ago, he is younger than the current leadership and very popular on the street

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Confirmation of what some of us already knew. Their intentions are and always have been obvious to anyone that is willing to take the blinkers off:



And to think there’s people who apparently think the situation is complex and Israel is misunderstood!

Is it feck, let’s call it what it is - GENOCIDE plain and simple.

 

[Ducado]

Confirmation of what some of us already knew. Their intentions are and always have been obvious to anyone that is willing to take the blinkers off:



And to think there’s people who apparently think the situation is complex and Israel is misunderstood!

Is it feck, let’s call it what it is - GENOCIDE plain and simple.

But much of this is for internal politics rather than the real world, when Biden is finally woken up to his disastrous handling of this , the call will come, a bit late for many but America needs the good will of many countries and Biden has pissed most off

Unless he can come up with a rabbit from the hat, a comprehensive peace settlement that is fair to both sides

Although having said all that the provocation and murder is still continuing on the West Bank