Middle East Conflict

[west didsblue]

Is there a documented report on this or was this also speculated. That the children are there because they have been "put" there is the only logical reason, or can there be other alternative reasons.

Maybe they are being allowed to make there own way there. I don’t see the difference.

 

[Homar]

It seems funny to me that when Israel - with the help of US veto's - disregards the UN its ok yet when Syria - with the help of Russian veto's - does the same somebody has to be bombed............

Bingo.

Can’t wait to hear from the “free press” about how the US has yet again used its veto to hold hostage the UNSC...

 

[cucumberman]

I am not condoning the deliberate targeting of children if that’s what you’re implying. If that’s what’s happening then it’s totally wrong. If, as Fogel appears to be saying, anyone approaching the fence is being targeted because there is a concern they may be planting explosives there then it’s not so clear cut. We don’t have details of the circumstances surrounding the deaths of the children so it’s difficult to make a judgment.

The fence is mutli fenced with an exclusion width of 60-100m. The distance one can throw a projectile by hand is less than that. If an explosive device is planted it would damage the fence but not the forces behind it. An M4 can shoot 200m for a headshot with the right optics. Less accurate around 200-300m range but based on the injury account its within headshot radius. Based on the injury the victims were either stationary or slow moving and it was thus intentional snipe unless these were lucky shots. if the headshot was close distance and combat range it might be x95s but I know and it's well documented that M4s are more preferred by the troops because of the weight and issues against x95s bullpup. So again it is a snipe.

If the children were used as human shields, an M4 with optics can definitely discern between a leg and an arm, let alone a child and an adult. It is easier to shoot the adults than the children in this case, unless there was no adults in the first place, and children throwing stones on fences and them dispersi is easy pickings.

 

[west didsblue]

The fence is mutli fenced with an exclusion width of 60-100m. The distance one can throw a projectile by hand is less than that. If an explosive device is planted it would damage the fence but not the forces behind it. An M4 can shoot 200m for a headshot with the right optics. Less accurate around 200-300m range but based on the injury account its within headshot radius. Based on the injury the victims were either stationary or slow moving and it was thus intentional snipe unless these were lucky shots. if the headshot was close distance and combat range it might be x95s but I know and it's well documented that M4s are more preferred by the troops because of the weight and issues against x95s bullpup. So again it is a snipe.

If the children were used as human shields, an M4 with optics can definitely discern between a leg and an arm, let alone a child and an adult. It is easier to shoot the adults than the children in this case, unless there was no adults in the first place, and children throwing stones on fences and them dispersi is easy pickings.

As I have said, if children are being deliberately targeted for no good reason then it’s totally wrong and those responsible should be held to account.
I also think that allowing children into this environment is wrong irrespective of this.

 

[Eds]

Why is nobody up in arms about the Palestinians in Syria being murdered - think it's over 4,000 now. Is it because Israel isn't involved?

 

[The blue phantom]

As I have said, if children are being deliberately targeted for no good reason then it’s totally wrong and those responsible should be held to account.
I also think that allowing children into this environment is wrong irrespective of this.

Can I ask. How do you feel abt the whole setup, Two state solution, the land, Palestinians rights, moving of the embassy, Netanyahu. Just everything basically?

I know you've had some issues with a few of these yourself as I've read some of your post in the past.

Highly unlikely everyone will live side by side peacefully one day, but I honestly just wanted your view on what you think would be any sort of solution?

 

[west didsblue]

Can I ask. How do you feel abt the whole setup, Two state solution, the land, Palestinians rights, moving of the embassy, Netanyahu. Just everything basically?

I know you've had some issues with a few of these yourself as I've read some of your post in the past.

Highly unlikely everyone will live side by side peacefully one day, but I honestly just wanted your view on what you think would be any sort of solution?

Just going out mate. It’ll have to wait until tomorrow as it may be a long answer.

 

[cucumberman]

As I have said, if children are being deliberately targeted for no good reason then it’s totally wrong and those responsible should be held to account.
I also think that allowing children into this environment is wrong irrespective of this.

So It's bad parenting.

On those responsible be held to account it would be anticipated. But based on previous hundreds of incidences of children headshot (the first intifada was well documented that there was 1 headshot child every two weeks), at worst the punishment for killing is demoted a rank, even the beach bombing of children had criminal charges dropped. The only single case of army conviction in the past twelve years was last year, whose trial for murder was reduced to 18 months for manslaughter, and then reduced to 14 months, for killing an immobilised Palestinian close proximity with a headshot. So I don't think anyone is holding their breath for those responsible being held into account. The light punishment given to them, asserts others whose fingers are on the trigger that they can get away with murder. Or at most serve 14 months.

Maybe just maybe if the leaders that be go hard on these executioners, then many may think twice before exerting force. Then again, a force that went about to cause injury using truncheons and other handhelds to beat down 30,000 children during the intifada, 1/3rd of which were below 10 years old, aren't really held high in expectations for valuing the life of minors beyond their own.

 

[The blue phantom]

Just going out mate. It’ll have to wait until tomorrow as it may be a long answer.

That's fair enough.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Why is nobody up in arms about the Palestinians in Syria being murdered - think it's over 4,000 now. Is it because Israel isn't involved?

Or the Turks bombing and invading Kurdish area in Northern Syria, the Saudis in Yemen, the Russians in Syria, repression in Egypt by what is effectively a military government. Hamas themselves are hardly the Lib-Dems and are accused of human rights abuses. Not a lot of threads on here about that apart from Syria.

While none of that excuses what Israel is guilty of (and there’s plenty) the attention always seems to be on them. If you listen to the UNHRC you’d imagine that there were little or no human rights abuses outside Israel and its borders. That’s what annoys me.