Middle East Conflict

[Pelegrinni]

With 500 -1000 strikes in Gaza by Israel every day for 2 weeks that is around 10,000 high powered explosive missiles

There is no way it is not bombing of civilians.

Otherwise we are being asked to believe that Israeli intelligence knows exactly where 10,000 Hamas sites are, this being the same Israeli Intelligence that had absolutely no idea about the Hamas incursion before it happened.

You would be correct if you assume Israel thinks and acts like you.
But Israel is different. They actually care about civilians - both in Gaza and in Israel. Many Gazans (adult and children) are treated in Israeli hospital. One of the female hostage runs a charity which transfers Gaza children to Israeli hospitals for treatment. Her kidnap and possibly endless rape is her reward for being a good person.

Israel provides water and fuel to Gaza. Israel provides jobs to more than 70,000 Gazans who cross the border every day. Some sources say it's even up to 200,000 that crosses the border every day.

Israel does not have to do this. They could act like Egypt and slam everything shut.

Instead of being grateful, they are repaid with terror, death and violence.
Something is inherently wrong with that kind of mindset.

 

[domalino]

Therefore Israel has decided to remove Hamas and that makes sense.

Israel and the IDF know just as well as the rest of us that no terrorist group has ever been wiped out by force, and in fact most attempts to do so have made the situation much worse.

They can kill every Hamas militant in Gaza today and Hamas will keep existing. Their numbers will be replenished by the end of the year with civilians they are radicalising right now. The leadership is safe outside the region.


If Israel genuinely wanted to destroy Hamas then they would start opening up diplomatic talks with Qatar, because as long as Qatar is providing safe haven for the leaders and a stream of money then Hamas is going to still exist.

 

[Pelegrinni]

How can anyone justify the Israeli government’s actions right now?

Thousands of completely innocent children are being killed. Millions of innocent people living through hell.

A truly horrific situation.

When Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, there was no discussion of proportionality until Japan surrendered.
Same thing happened when Hitler attacked Britain.
Sadam was bombed back to the stone age in order to get him out of Kuwait.
The military objective is clear - uproot Hamas from Gaza. Any amount of force it take to achieve that objective is considered proportional according to a British military expert.
America deployed two atomic bombs to force Japan to surrender. Israel will drop any amount of ordinance that is required to force Hamas to either surrender or be defeated.
You may not like it. But that is the rule of war.
Israel has asked civilians to move to the South. According to international law, they have complied with the rules. Any civilian that gets caught in the cross fire will be treated as collateral damage. It is unfortunate but that's what happens when you go to war.

 

[domalino]

I read about the apartheid stuff quite a lot on social media.
But the facts on ground paints a different picture.
Apartheid is defined as "separating or setting apart".
Now the facts:
Israel has an Arab population of more than 20% with full voting and citizenship rights. Same laws applies to all. A former PM was sent to jail by an Arab judge recently. Israel is a multi ethnic society.

Also, many thousands of Gazans cross the border every day to work in Israel. Some sources cited around 70,000. Does this look like apartheid?

Every country has a right to secure their borders. Just like Egypt and Israel has done with Gaza.

I ask the op to please specify the reasons why he thinks Israel is an apartheid state. We can then apply the same criteria on all Arab states in the Middle East before drawing a conclusion.

Loads of people, including HRW, Amnesty the UN and South Africa's Human Rights agency (they know a thing or two about apartheid) think that what's going on with Israel and Palestine is apartheid and the reasons are very easily found online if you actually want to find out.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Forcing the population out of Gaza would be genocide.

Genocide was what Hamas did to the Israeli civilians on October 7.
Asking civilians to move out from a war zone is complying with the international rules of engagement. The civilians can choose to stay put but Israel will not be held responsible if the civilians get caught in a crossfire.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Loads of people, including HRW, Amnesty the UN and South Africa's Human Rights agency (they know a thing or two about apartheid) think that what's going on with Israel and Palestine is apartheid and the reasons are very easily found online if you actually want to find out.

Again I ask you - what are the specific practices in Israel that would qualify them as an apartheid state?
Then lets apply the same criteria across the Middle East for comparison.

 

[domalino]

Again I ask you - what are the specific practices in Israel that would qualify them as an apartheid state?
Then lets apply the same criteria across the Middle East for comparison.

Go look them up. It's not hard, there's entire wikipedia pages on the subject.

Frankly I have zero interest in debating this topic with someone who thinks Gazans should be grateful to Israel for refusing them to fish their own waters, control their own borders, refuses them a port or airport so people can't travel in or out without Israel's permission and has blockaded food and aid for 20 years.

You're a cheerleader for an oppressive occupation, and you have the gall to demand the people being starved to death while dodging bombs sing the praises of their murderers.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Genocide was what Hamas did to the Israeli civilians on October 7.
Asking civilians to move out from a war zone is complying with the international rules of engagement. The civilians can choose to stay put but Israel will not be held responsible if the civilians get caught in a crossfire.

You are an awful shill.

Please stop it. It's embarrassing.

 

[dublinblue12]

[

Yours and a few others go to word on here to enhance their argument. If Israel perpetrate such an act then they need to be held to account accordingly and I will fully support this. Having bore witness to a well documented genocide in 1994, I hate the very existence of that word.

So wait for it to happen before suggesting it may be happening? Even when the Israeli defence minister has come out with things like this, which all sounds a bit genocidal

 

[Pelegrinni]

We don't know the details behind that video. The dead Hamas soldier could be wearing an explosive vest.