Middle East Conflict

Vic said:
So Israel is to be a light to the gentiles by getting rid of the gentiles.
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I am pretty certain that Israel and Zionists cannot see what they are doing to their standing in the world - Jews do - Jews living around the globe will be feeling the heat for something thy are not responsible for but we are now at the point where Jews around the world speak out or identify as complicit with genocide and ethnic cleansing - I cannot see any way how Israel comes out of this with any credit of support in the future.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I am pretty certain that Israel and Zionists cannot see what they are doing to their standing in the world - Jews do - Jews living around the globe will be feeling the heat for something thy are not responsible for but we are now at the point where Jews around the world speak out or identify as complicit with genocide and ethnic cleansing - I cannot see any way how Israel comes out of this with any credit of support in the future.
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Are they not getting "credit" now with weapons STILL being sent to them?

When they wipe out/ send away the Palestinians, their enemies will come for them and the US et al, will still promote that Israel have the right to defend itself.

How can they not...?
 
Having watched Corridors of Power recently and the way they get round the word genocide depending on when it suits them you can see how they get away with it.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I am pretty certain that Israel and Zionists cannot see what they are doing to their standing in the world - Jews do - Jews living around the globe will be feeling the heat for something thy are not responsible for but we are now at the point where Jews around the world speak out or identify as complicit with genocide and ethnic cleansing - I cannot see any way how Israel comes out of this with any credit of support in the future.
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At least there's some acknowledgement of what's going on. But it needs "determination" to stop settler terrorism.

"The IDF published the findings of its investigation into the violent settler attack earlier this month on the Palestinian village of Jit, in which settlers burned vehicles, attacked residents and killed a 23-year-old. According to the findings, the Shin Bet provided the IDF and police with intelligence that settlers were planning 'nationalistic violence' ahead of the incident, and the IDF should have 'operated with more determination.' Avi Bluth, head of the IDF's Central Command, said that the incident constituted terrorism." (Haaretz)
 
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Vic said:
At least there's some acknowledgement of what's going on. But it needs "determination" to stop settler terrorism.

The IDF published the findings of its investigation into the violent settler attack earlier this month on the Palestinian village of Jit, in which settlers burned vehicles, attacked residents and killed a 23-year-old. According to the findings, the Shin Bet provided the IDF and police with intelligence that settlers were planning "nationalistic violence" ahead of the incident, and the IDF should have "operated with more determination." Avi Bluth, head of the IDF's Central Command, said that the incident constituted terrorism. (Haaretz)
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judge, juror, executioner - of course you find yourself innocent
 
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https://t.co/SxmI3G5quS
 
Bigga said:
Are they not getting "credit" now with weapons STILL being sent to them?

When they wipe out/ send away the Palestinians, their enemies will come for them and the US et al, will still promote that Israel have the right to defend itself.

How can they not...?
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Our ability to interfere is minimal, the UK sells less than 1% of the arms that the US does. If the entire world stopped arms sales to Israel and the US still continued then absolutely nothing would change.

Everything hinges upon the US but the problem is the US has its own goals and its own policies to counter enemy geopolitical actors such as Iran or Russia.

The US could stop this tomorrow but so could Iran or Russia and what have they done to halt this war? They've just thrown petrol on the fire. Russia is already commiting its own genocide upon the Ukrainian people, where are the protests and continued pages of outrage?

We can blame Netanyahu which is indeed correct but he is just better equipped to enact awful policies. What would Hamas and Iran be doing to Israel today had they possessed F-35's fighter jet and laser guided bombs? Iran has a goal to commit genocide and obliterate Israel from the planet, they just haven't got the means to do it.
 
inbetween said:
Our ability to interfere is minimal, the UK sells less than 1% of the arms that the US does. If the entire world stopped arms sales to Israel and the US still continued then absolutely nothing would change.

Everything hinges upon the US but the problem is *the US has its own goals and its own policies to counter enemy geopolitical actors such as Iran or Russia.

**The US could stop this tomorrow but so could Iran or Russia and what have they done to halt this war? They've just thrown petrol on the fire. ***Russia is already commiting its own genocide upon the Ukrainian people, where are the protests and continued pages of outrage?

We can blame Netanyahu which is indeed correct but he is just better equipped to enact awful policies. ****What would Hamas and Iran be doing to Israel today had they possessed F-35's fighter jet and laser guided bombs? Iran has a goal to commit genocide and obliterate Israel from the planet, they just haven't got the means to do it.
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* So what was the US needed to "counter enemy geopolitical actors"? What did they do to warrant the US needing to plant themselves in Israel?

** Again, why would the US keep the genocide going cos all they've done is stoke the ire of Iran with its mass murder co-opting. Are you saying Palestinians don't have the right to defend themselves, in that case, cos it sure looks that way.

*** You're saying that actual soldiers at war is now a genocide? Cos I don't recall Russia mass murdering fleeing civilians by trapping them in corridors and targeting families cutting off electric and water. Aren't actual soldiers fighting with tanks and jets at each other?

**** This is just pure speculation on your behalf. It's zionist talk, actually.
 
Bigga said:
* So what was the US needed to "counter enemy geopolitical actors"? What did they do to warrant the US needing to plant themselves in Israel?

** Again, why would the US keep the genocide going cos all they've done is stoke the ire of Iran with its mass murder co-opting. Are you saying Palestinians don't have the right to defend themselves, in that case, cos it sure looks that way.

*** You're saying that actual soldiers at war is now a genocide? Cos I don't recall Russia mass murdering fleeing civilians by trapping them in corridors and targeting families cutting off electric and water. Aren't actual soldiers fighting with tanks and jets at each other?

**** This is just pure speculation on your behalf. It's zionist talk, actually.
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This sort of rhetoric is exactly what fuels these conflicts. You're talking of sides, you're even putting me on a side but why? I'm not Israeli or involved so it doesn't even matter, I don't even subscribe to what Israel is doing. However, if it's so awful to believe that Israel should exist and that makes me a Zionist then yeah sign me up, so what? Or is your opinion anti-Zionist and Israel should not exist, therefore you want genocide upon Israel?

You're proving my point really which is just the simple fact that this is all fuelled by conflict and hate. You've attempted to pigeon-hole me on an opposite side to justify your opinions but your opinions however all mean war and suffering. That's fine but it hasn't helped the Palestinians for 80+ years where war is a death sentence and not a luvvy little protest to attend at the weekend.

As much as you might dislike it peace can only happen when both Palestine and Israel are considered equal parts of the equation. This means the nutters in charge of Israel are isolated but also the actors within Hamas and beyond are isolated. You can't have one, you have to have both because without both you only get war. So as much as Israel needs to be disarmed militarily, so does Hamas and their mates.

Until then nothing is going to change, it just so happens like I said that one side has F-35's and the other hasn't. It doesn't change the fact that currently all parties would prefer if they could just erase each other from the map. And this is exactly what Russia wants to do with Ukraine but you're saying that isn't the same thing? Really?
 
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inbetween said:
This sort of rhetoric is exactly what fuels these conflicts. You're talking of sides, you're even putting me on a side but why? I'm not Israeli or involved so it doesn't even matter, I don't even subscribe to what Israel is doing. However, if it's so awful to believe that Israel should exist and that makes me a Zionist then yeah sign me up, so what? Or is your opinion anti-Zionist and Israel should not exist, therefore you want genocide upon Israel?

You're proving my point really which is just the simple fact that this is all fuelled by conflict and hate. You've attempted to pigeon-hole me on an opposite side to justify your opinions but your opinions however all mean war and suffering. That's fine but it hasn't helped the Palestinians for 80+ years where war is a death sentence and not a luvvy little protest to attend at the weekend.

As much as you might dislike it peace can only happen when both Palestine and Israel are considered equal parts of the equation. This means the nutters in charge of Israel are isolated but also the actors within Hamas and beyond are isolated. You can't have one, you have to have both because without both you only get war. So as much as Israel needs to be disarmed militarily, so does Hamas and their mates.

Until then nothing is going to change, it just so happens like I said that one side has F-35's and the other hasn't. It doesn't change the fact that currently all parties would prefer if they could just erase each other from the map. And this is exactly what Russia wants to do with Ukraine but you're saying that isn't the same thing? Really?
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So, I'm not really sure why you're conflating Russia into this whole thing. They're not the same as Russia don't want NATO on their doorstep and have openly said they respect Ukraine existing, but they want them as a neutral country.



And, for some reason, you seem to disqualify the US' need to be in the ME region as part of this whole problem. The US have regime changed what happened in Iran, Libya etc., without anybody calling them out for their involvement in the Middle East issues. Both Britain and the US are the main causes of destabilisation to relative peace in the ME as it stands now. All for what? Resources, power and control.

Does Israel have the right to exist? I dunno, but is it at the behest of displacing another people? Why and who say so...? Do you think the Palestinians have resisted for 80+ years for shits and giggles or because they have been fighting not to be erased from history?

The Us backed regime of Israel are not going to start any peace process unless the US stop sending weapons, full stop. But it won't and can't now cos they are that deep into it, making a complete mockery of their call for a 'ceasefire' they have no intention of actioning. Note, the ceasefire they ask for is never and never will be a permanent ceasefire under the current Dem leadership.

And the 'nutters' you call Hamas were encouraged and, thus, created by Netanyahu who could not have done it without US knowledge of giving them billions of dollars.

Once Israel stops with the atrocities, both Hamas and Hezbollah et al, stop. It is not a case of "all must stop" in my opinion because trust has been lost every time an attempt at some sort of 'ceasefire' has been actioned with Israel/ Netanyahu finding reason not to carry on.

Wanting peace is not zionism, in itself, but being ignorant to the reasoning behind it all, is what the zionists want.
 
Bigga said:
So, I'm not really sure why you're conflating Russia into this whole thing. They're not the same as Russia don't want NATO on their doorstep and have openly said they respect Ukraine existing, but they want them as a neutral country.



And, for some reason, you seem to disqualify the US' need to be in the ME region as part of this whole problem. The US have regime changed what happened in Iran, Libya etc., without anybody calling them out for their involvement in the Middle East issues. Both Britain and the US are the main causes of destabilisation to relative peace in the ME as it stands now. All for what? Resources, power and control.

Does Israel have the right to exist? I dunno, but is it at the behest of displacing another people? Why and who say so...? Do you think the Palestinians have resisted for 80+ years for shits and giggles or because they have been fighting not to be erased from history?

The Us backed regime of Israel are not going to start any peace process unless the US stop sending weapons, full stop. But it won't and can't now cos they are that deep into it, making a complete mockery of their call for a 'ceasefire' they have no intention of actioning. Note, the ceasefire they ask for is never and never will be a permanent ceasefire under the current Dem leadership.

And the 'nutters' you call Hamas were encouraged and, thus, created by Netanyahu who could not have done it without US knowledge of giving them billions of dollars.

Once Israel stops with the atrocities, both Hamas and Hezbollah et al, stop. It is not a case of "all must stop" in my opinion because trust has been lost every time an attempt at some sort of 'ceasefire' has been actioned with Israel/ Netanyahu finding reason not to carry on.

Wanting peace is not zionism, in itself, but being ignorant to the reasoning behind it all, is what the zionists want.
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The mind boggles.
 
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