Middle East Conflict

[Ducado]

The Zionist mentality in a nutshell, does this sound like the words of the “good guys”?

You know you could find plenty of Arabs and Palestinians who would say they want to wipe our Jews

You can find examples of extreme opinions on most subjects if you look hard enough, I once read an Irish Nationalist saying all loyalists should be sent back to Scotland, does his opinion represent all Irish opinion? I think not

Is his opinion the view of most Israelis? I think not

Are most Israelis hurt and angry about what happened on Oct 7? Damn right they are, hurt and angry people tend to express extreme thoughts and emotions, do they mean it? In most cases no they don’t

 

[cucumberman]

What are the odds of an already heavy-armoured tank against a family spacewagon of ‘human shields’ and any action is justified?

 

[west didsblue]

The Holocaust was not caused by the Jews. Anti semitism existed in most European countries, through no fault of their own. Having a foreigner to blame has always been the easy route for governments the world over.

CB is saying that any antisemitism that arises now is being fuelled by Israel itself.

I've always had sympathy for the Palestinians because I knew the way they have been treated since 48 is wrong. The majority of people in the UK don't have a dog in the fight but what they are seeing now will not endear them to the state of Israel.

Can’t really disagree but the negative treatment of the Palestinians extends to all the neighbouring countries as well as Israel and the continued refugee status has been weaponised by the Arab world to keep the conflict alive over the decades. In recent years I fully agree that the succession of right wing governments in Israel have been the biggest blocker to any progress in peace talks but that’s not always been the case.

I’ve said for years that Israel has needed to make the first move to get the 2 state solution back on the table for discussion but instead they’ve doubled down on their support to the settler movement which has consequently strengthened extremist groups like Hamas on the Palestinian side, which has had the effect of sustaining the current policies in Israel.

Hopefully when this is over the cycle of extremism breeding more extremism on both sides will be broken, and moderates on both sides will be able to make their cases now that it’s clear that extreme policies have only brought death and destruction in both Palestine and Israel.

 

[2smokinberyls smockfrocks]

Hopefully when this is over...

sadly, the question is, will this ever be over?

it certainly doesn't look that way right now.

 

[Vic]

I think the Israeli government has done more in the past 2 weeks to fuel anti-Semitism than the rest of the world has managed in the last 100 years.
00p
Everyone supported their right to defend themselves and even perhaps to simply retaliate. But this has gone far, far beyond that and IMO is now doing long term damage to the Jews' relations with the rest of the world.

This is the problem with Israel's saying that anti-Zionism equals antisemitism. Given the expansionist views of many Zionists (historical and current) it's worth pointing out that the first anti-Zionists were Jewish (and many currently). If you think Israel should exist that would not make you a Zionist. Thinking Israel should stay within its only internationally-recognised boundaries does not make you anti-Zionist.

Can you detest Israeli policies without being antisemitic? Of course. It's Israel that wants to say otherwise.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I think the Israeli government has done more in the past 2 weeks to fuel anti-Semitism than the rest of the world has managed in the last 100 years.

Everyone supported their right to defend themselves and even perhaps to simply retaliate. But this has gone far, far beyond that and IMO is now doing long term damage to the Jews' relations with the rest of the world.

You might want to scale back that timescale a tad.

 

[Vic]

This is the problem with Israel's saying that anti-Zionism equals antisemitism. Given the expansionist views of many Zionists (historical and current) it's worth pointing out that the first anti-Zionists were Jewish (and many currently). If you think Israel should exist that would not make you a Zionist. Thinking Israel should stay within its only internationally-recognised boundaries does not make you anti-Zionist.

Can you detest Israeli policies without being antisemitic? Of course. It's Israel that wants to say otherwise.

And of course many antisemites were Zionist because it would mean fewer Jews where they were - including Balfour who wanted the Aliens Act in the UK which was aimed at keeping out pauper Jews fleeing persecution in Russia.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You might want to scale back that timescale a tad.

Fair comment. I qualified it somewhat in a PM to another poster because I didn't think it was an appropriate comparison to get into here.

Let me just tone it down a bit and reiterate that I don't think the Israeli government's actions are doing anything right now to help reduce antisemitism.

 

[bluemoon32]

Genocidal cunts

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Let me just tone it down a bit and reiterate that I don't think the Israeli government's actions are doing anything right now to help reduce antisemitism.

I’ll go further and state that it’s egregiously and unnecessarily increasing it.