Middle East Conflict

[Ducado]

Genocidal cunts

He is a member of Otzma Yehudit a far right party that is propping up the current government, people need to stop quoting extremist of both sides, they have extreme opinions they are not the barometer of normal opinions, would people quote members of Britain's First and present it as the opinion of the average British citizen ?

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[bluemoon32]

He is a member of Otzma Yehudit a far right party that is propping up the current government, people need to stop quoting extremist of both sides, they have extreme opinions they are not the barometer of normal opinions, would people quote members of Britain's First and present it as the opinion of the average British citizen ?

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Sorry, i thought he was part of their government, not exactly Britain's First

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The Zionist mentality in a nutshell, does this sound like the words of the “good guys”?

I don’t believe, and truly hope I’m right, that this represents the Jewish people around the world.
I do believe that this is brainwashing and that Israel has become what they profess to hate. Everyone is loathe to use the N word, but it was predicted by Jewish church leaders as far back as the 70’s.
From what I’ve known previously and from what I’ve learned over the last three weeks, just like the NI partition solution, the Israeli solution was always doomed for failure. There was no plan for the displacement of the people already inhabiting the land. Certainly since 1967 the expansionism over security creed only pushes this one way.

I can only see this getting worse with the two polarised protagonists of Hamas and The Israeli right wing government in command.

 

[Ducado]

Sorry, i thought he was part of their government, not exactly Britain's First

He is part of the government but that's due the PR system they use he does not have popular support, also don't forget that many on the far right are descendants of Jews that were expelled from arab countries and lost everything and did not have a particularly good time when they got to Israel so they have a long standing antipathy towards them but they are a minority

 

[Ducado]

Just as an aside, when the far right parties joined the government it caused a backlash throughout the Jewish world, especially in the US especially from AIPAC

By the way I am not defending him, he is a thug just explaining that he is not representative of Jewish opinion

 

[Roachy]

I think the Israeli government has done more in the past 2 weeks to fuel anti-Semitism than the rest of the world has managed in the last 100 years.

Everyone supported their right to defend themselves and even perhaps to simply retaliate. But this has gone far, far beyond that and IMO is now doing long term damage to the Jews' relations with the rest of the world.

Glad you stated it was only your opinion as well.

 

[west didsblue]

I don’t believe, and truly hope I’m right, that this represents the Jewish people around the world.
I do believe that this is brainwashing and that Israel has become what they profess to hate. Everyone is loathe to use the N word, but it was predicted by Jewish church leaders as far back as the 70’s.
From what I’ve known previously and from what I’ve learned over the last three weeks, just like the NI partition solution, the Israeli solution was always doomed for failure. There was no plan for the displacement of the people already inhabiting the land. Certainly since 1967 the expansionism over security creed only pushes this one way.

I can only see this getting worse with the two polarised protagonists of Hamas and The Israeli right wing government in command.

There’s two or three posters that trawl the web to look for extreme opinions from the Israeli right with a view to making it look like it reflects a general consensus. Then they complain when others say that Hamas reflects Palestine and post extremist Palestinian content. In reality they’re all wrong and it’s not helpful posting that shite on here. Should leave it on Twitter.

 

[BrianW]

There is long-standing antisemitism in the UK. Where I live there are two golf clubs. The second exists because Jews were not allowed to join the first. Many people here, particularly the Upper Class, thought Hitler was great right up to 1939. We did virtually nothing to admit Jewish refugees from the Nazis pre-1939, not least because the Daily Mail objected to them coming here.

So I perfectly understand why so many Jews want a Jewish homeland (Israel) where they are in control and where, if all things turn to shit, they can emigrate to. It's natural, and it explains why most of the community is fiercely supportive of Israel.

How you resolve this issue between Israel and Palestine I haven't a clue. The fact is there is a minority on both sides who would happily commit genocide on the other. I don't see any obvious path to peace and, as ever, it is the innocents who suffer most.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

You know you could find plenty of Arabs and Palestinians who would say they want to wipe our Jews

You can find examples of extreme opinions on most subjects if you look hard enough, I once read an Irish Nationalist saying all loyalists should be sent back to Scotland, does his opinion represent all Irish opinion? I think not

Is his opinion the view of most Israelis? I think not

Are most Israelis hurt and angry about what happened on Oct 7? Damn right they are, hurt and angry people tend to express extreme thoughts and emotions, do they mean it? In most cases no they don’t

Yeah of course there’s plenty of Palestinians that hold similar views and no surprise considering they’re the ones being oppressed for the last 75 years. When you dehumanise a people it’s only going to go one way.

The poll I posted yesterday from the Israel democracy institute doesn’t exactly paint the picture of just a few Israelis that hold these type of views. Are many of them letting their emotions cloud their judgement, I’d like to think so, but based on my own experiences, I’d say the moderates were in the minority even before Oct 7th and even less so now.

For context, the poll I’m referring to:

To what extent do you think that Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza when planning the next phases of fighting there?

Not at all: Jews 47.5 Arabs 1.2
Not so much: Jews 35.9 Arabs 4.5
Quite a lot: Jews 7.7 Arabs 21.2
Very much: Jews 5.2 Arabs 62.1
Don't know: Jews 3.7 Arabs 11.0

Do you agree or disagree that when undertaking military operations, the IDF should ensure that it is not breaking international laws and rules of war?

Strongly agree: Jews 14.3 Arabs: 71.2
Somewhat agree: Jews 33.6 Arabs 11.4
Somewhat disagree: Jews 26.6 Arabs 3.8
Strongly disagree: Jews 19.2 Arabs 1.1
Don't know: Jews 6.5 Arabs 12.5

Only 12.9% of Jews in Israel in high support of "considering the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population." 47.5% believes they should not be considered at all.

A larger percentage of Jews in Israel strongly support breaking international laws and rules of war (19.2%) than upholding them (14.3%).

 

[goalmole]

Can’t really disagree but the negative treatment of the Palestinians extends to all the neighbouring countries as well as Israel and the continued refugee status has been weaponised by the Arab world to keep the conflict alive over the decades. In recent years I fully agree that the succession of right wing governments in Israel have been the biggest blocker to any progress in peace talks but that’s not always been the case.

I’ve said for years that Israel has needed to make the first move to get the 2 state solution back on the table for discussion but instead they’ve doubled down on their support to the settler movement which has consequently strengthened extremist groups like Hamas on the Palestinian side, which has had the effect of sustaining the current policies in Israel.

Hopefully when this is over the cycle of extremism breeding more extremism on both sides will be broken, and moderates on both sides will be able to make their cases now that it’s clear that extreme policies have only brought death and destruction in both Palestine and Israel.

You will not have anything like a genuine negotiation unless and until the Americans put pressure on the Israelis on the pain of a cutback in financial, military and diplomatic support.
Up till now the Americans and the West have indulged any and every Israeli whim, whether legal or illegal, resulting in an atmosphere of impunity which the Israeli government has exploited to maximise it's ethic cleansing through illegal settlement building and illegal land grabs in the West Bank and it's murder and repression of the Palestinian people.
Do we hear outrage from Western governments when Palestinians are illegally imprisoned, murdered and tortured on a daily basis for decades.
Not a murmur, not a peep from the self proclaimed upholders of democracy who regularly invade countries with regimes inimical to their interest with the pretence of liberating their populations from tyranny while at the same time ousting democratically elected leaders and installing friendly dictatorships all over the world.
This hypocrisy may bring short term benefits but in the long run erodes the credibility of our own systems of government.
The world has evolved and is evolving, if the West refuses to correct the mistakes and profligacy of the past, it may not be just Israel that has to pay a price.