Middle East Conflict

[halfcenturyup]

Yes, I see it.
But Israel sees itself (way over 80% of the jewish population) as fighting a war for it's very existence. If Hezbollah joins in they will fight them too as they will see it as confirmation of it as a war for the existence of Israel.
Enemies of Israel will probably be in Rage mode too as a result of Israels OTT attacks that caught so many civilians as "collateral damage" (another horrible phrase).
These attacks aren't helping Isreal's friends defend their actions but at the moment I think that is the last thing on the IDF's agenda at the moment.
Rage is difficult to calm.

Fair enough.

The thing is: Objectively, this is not a fight for theil existence of Israel. I can understand why the Israelis may think that given the history (long in terms of oppression of Jewish people, and shorter in terms of conflict over Israel) and the recent attack, but Israel isn't going to be wiped off the map, and Hamas, even with Hezbollah, aren't "killing every single Jew" or whatever they may say in their manifesto. It just isn't going to happen. So, to me as a neutral, for Israel to react as if it is does not validate in any way what they are doing. And "rage" isn't an acceptable motivation for a professional army, btw, no matter what the general population feel.

Nor do I accept for one moment, as a neutral, the argument from the Palestinian side that what happened last month was part of a resistance movement. There are ways to resist without the acts of barbarism carried out. Personally, I suspect that all the Hamas fighters involved in that attack expected to die within 30 minutes and were motivated by their own "rage", as you put it. The question Israel should be asking itself is why they didn't. But, back to my point, the difference in my eyes is that Hamas isn't a professional army and, I imagine, deliberately uses "rage" from the Palestinians to motivate them into near suicidal acts. And there must be a lot of real rage to tap into, with more being created with every passing day.

Anyway, that's my personal view on existential threats and rage as a justification for conflict. As a neutral.

 

[halfcenturyup]

What about the other option.
That niggling doubt that there isn’t an exit strategy and there won’t be 2 million people to cater for because they’ll be cleansed from the land and any rebuilding will be done for new settlers eventually, but will probably never happen because of the WW3 that just started.

It’s just another option.

That's the elephant in the room isn't it?

You can't look at what is happening in the West Bank and tell anyone that is because of an existential threat to Israel, or rage about Palestinian "resistance". It's clearly about land and so it's not unreasonable to ask if they will have the same approach to Gaza.

And then what do they do with 3 million Palestinians in the WB, and 2 million in Gaza. No way they want them in a greater Israel.

Watch this space, I think.

 

[halfcenturyup]

They have been told in no uncertain terms that this is line they can’t cross as much as they would like too

Publicly yes, and for regional consumption, I imagine, to keep a little credibility with Arab states and global opinion.

It's a bit naive, imo, to assume the US aren't saying something else in private given they have done, and are doing, absolutely nothing about what is happening in the WB.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Humanity peaked in 2019. Think it’s now on a downward spiral. As resources become more scarce,it’s only going to get worse. Basically, because humans are cunts.

No offence intended to any humans.

At least I got to see City win the treble. Thank you Universe!

Hooray, I finally have found someone else who thinks all people are cunts beneath a thin veneer of civility. Take that away for whatever reason and you have Israel/ Palestine, Russia/ Ukraine ...... or Bluemoon, I suppose. :)

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Fair enough.

The thing is: Objectively, this is not a fight for theil existence of Israel. I can understand why the Israelis may think that given the history (long in terms of oppression of Jewish people, and shorter in terms of conflict over Israel) and the recent attack, but Israel isn't going to be wiped off the map, and Hamas, even with Hezbollah, aren't "killing every single Jew" or whatever they may say in their manifesto. It just isn't going to happen. So, to me as a neutral, for Israel to react as if it is does not validate in any way what they are doing. And "rage" isn't an acceptable motivation for a professional army, btw, no matter what the general population feel.

Are they a professional army btw, or are most of them a bunch of conscripts?

 

[halfcenturyup]

Are they a professional army btw, or are most of them a bunch of conscripts?

I guess you could call the ones doing the damage a professional army, certainly the ones making the decisions.

Edit: Sorry for hogging the thead, it's just that, when I wake up, I respond to anything that tickles my fancy. Not trying to carpet bomb the thread so apologies if any of you feel like collateral damage.

 

[BayernMan]

Are cooler headers rising in Washington?

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Just listening to Radio 5 Live. A BBC journalist embedded with an Israeli army unit in Gaza reports that the level of destructions means that Nortuern Gaza is now virtually inhabitable. Its unlikely civilians will be able to return there:

 

[Ducado]

Publicly yes, and for regional consumption, I imagine, to keep a little credibility with Arab states and global opinion.

It's a bit naive, imo, to assume the US aren't saying something else in private given they have done, and are doing, absolutely nothing about what is happening in the WB.

But it would further harm American strategic interests in the region if they’ve not been harmed enough

Plus the basic fact is that no country is willing to take on millions of refugees or expelled people, it’s a wet dream of the Israeli far right that’s about all

 

[halfcenturyup]

Just listening to Radio 5 Live. A BBC journalist embedded with an Israeli army unit in Gaza reports that the level of destructions means that Nortuern Gaza is now virtually inhabitable. Its unlikely civilians will be able to return there:

Well, precision bombing will do that ....