Middle East Conflict

[Bazzmand Show]

As ever the truth is always lost in war.

Some of the unverified reports being circulated about alleged atrocities on both sides show how social media is mainly used for spreading bullshit.

Yes and no - some people saying things like "seeee only a handful of children were decapitated", as if it somehow means all the other actions were ok?

It's a tit for tat gotcha comment.

 

[mackenzie]

This is now threatening to boil over into a conflict of a much larger scale imo.

Agreed, and something I think was their intention all along.

 

[TinFoilHat]

This is now threatening to boil over into a conflict of a much larger scale imo.

It needs strong minds on all sides to stop it from being one.

I think it's telling that Biden is offering support but also told Netanyahu not to overstep the mark. As in taking advantage of the situation to grab more land from Palestine.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

3 attacks on Jewish owned businesses, one of which we know was just a robbery.

1 religiously motivated attack is too many, but it feels like people are deliberately fear mongering when they say attacks are up 400%.

They’re just recent reported attacks. Theres lots of instances of Jewish people being abused and we now have security/police stood outside of Jewish schools as well. The Jewish population in the UK isn’t large at all and the reports of attacks/ abuse and similar are pretty large compared to the entire population.

Maybe it is being exaggerated in some cases, but It doesn’t seem like it. Any form of attack or abuse is too much as you say

 

[Ducado]

No doubt but I believe the bigger issue here is the fact Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are an enemy that isn’t really interested in the odd settlement, its sole aim is the destruction of Israel and the deaths of all Jews.

They even go so far as to put that into writing.

How do you begin to try and make peace with that sort of ideology?

That ideology comes from putting people in a hopeless pressure cooker situation

Iran is different that are looking for reginal leadership, however extremism will flourish where people have no hope of a better future, we see it here in the West, we don't have to look far look at Northern Ireland, the vast majority of active Provo's were not wealthy middle class Catholics, they were the poor and marginalised who had nothing to live for, and wanted a way to hit back at a system that had put them there, of course they had a cause (just like the Palestinians do) put the cause was just something to hand their hats on

Again we need to look at the route cause of all this and fix it, otherwise we keep going around in endless circles of horror

 

[Big-P]

This is now threatening to boil over into a conflict of a much larger scale imo.

Might be a daft question but rekon town will be safe for after work drinks on Friday. Had planned to go out.

 

[SWP's back]

They're not on the battlefield.

Sorry can you go further as I’m slightly unsure of the point you’re making.

 

[Vic]

While this is undoubtedly true, a few words in support of this thread and all the lunatics on it: I get some of my news from MSM, of course, but there is little on there that is discussed in-depth as things are on here. It's remarkable that a football forum can provide a "public service" in reflecting the views of a cross-section of the population, including even people who have experienced both sides of the conflict personally.

There are trolls and cunts, of course, but every now and then, there are posts that contain interesting and new information. Sometimes thought-provoking. It's a good barometer, it can be informative and, for me, at least, it is useful, warts and all. So well done to @Ric and all the mods for doing their best to keep this particular ship on an even keel in difficult circumstances.

For those who do want to learn more, here are two historical papers. The first is by an American Jew in 1919 arguing against a Jewish state (and claiming that's by a vast majority the view of American Jews). The basic premise is that the Diaspora meant that Jews have flourished wherever they are (despite antisemitism) - the present problem (in 1919) was the poverty and oppression of Jews in Russia and Rumania, and no-one else wanted them (keeping out Jewish paupers was the reason for Britain's first Immigration Act). It starts with a section on different sorts of Zionism, but see the prediction of how things would work out if Jews became a majority in Palestine (increasing anti-semitism elsewhere): "Even if it should come by the most perfectly natural process, the feelings of the natives as they see themselves driven to the wall, becoming more and more dependent upon those who are usurping their place, will not be any the less bitter on that account. The reaction of such a situation will be felt by the Jews all over the world. It is assuredly a serious matter to propose a policy which must, even if involuntarily, work injustice and hardships for others as a condition of its being carried out."

Zionism and the future of Palestine; The fallacies and dangers of political Zionism : Jastrow, Morris, 1861-1921 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The second is post-Holocaust (1946) by the Jewish Agency for Palestine. Its main premise is that the Balfour Declaration promised a "national home" for the Jews, but a Jewish state was implicit, and that attempts to restrict Jewish immigration were a betrayal of the post WW1 promises. It claims that the obligations not to prejudice life for the existing inhabitants were secondary to the promises made to the Jews, quoting Churchill: "Merely to sit still and avoid friction with Arabs and safeguard their civil and religious rights and to abandon the positive exertion for the establishment of the Jewish National Home would not be a faithful interpretation of the Mandate." (But then Churchill wasn't averse to bombing Arab villages.)

Memorandum_submitted_to_the_Anglo_American_committee_of_inquiry_by_the_Jewish_agency_for_Palestine.pdf (flvc.org)

 

[cleavers]

Again we need to look at the route cause of all this and fix it

As laudible as that sounds, what exactly is the root cause ?

I understand that Israel is intent on getting rid of Hamas, but some of this bombing just looks indiscrimiate, and is only creating more extremists for the future, so it will be a never ending circle of horror, especially when states like iran sponsor it.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

If there was no religion would we all be able to live in peace?

Probably not but there'd be one less stick to weild, ultimately wars/violence on this scale is all about money and feeling wronged and someone will always want what next door has, they won't always know why but will want it anyway.