Middle East Conflict

Near Da Nang during the Vietnam War a big U.S. Army "caterpillar" truck going at speed hit a Vietnamese family walking by the side of the road in the dark. The driver, high up in the cab, didn't even know what he'd done. The mangled bodies of the dead and injured were eventually taken to a hospital on the Army base. A terrible accident, yet looking at the grief & anger in the face of the surviving 14 year old daughter a U.S. Marine understood it when he said "There's another Vietcong for you."

Similarly, what Israel is doing in Gaza is recruiting future Hamas terrorists by the hour.
 
Having recently become intrigued by Braverman's comments (echoed in the past by Merkel and others) about the apparent failure of multiculturalism, I recently read Nilüfer Göle's book The Daily Lives of Muslims. It is based around a series of interviews and discussion groups held with Muslims who are living in 21 cities in European countries.

What she found was that many of her interviewees overwhelmingly favour the secular laws of the country of which they are citizens and strongly identify with that country, and were unable to identify in any way with the harsher aspects of Sharia, such as the well-known hudud punishments, or Muslim extremists.

It is additionally worth emphasising a point noted by John Bowen in his book Blaming Islam, namely, that 'in France, half of all Muslims supported the law most often cited there as anti-Islamic: the 2004 ban of Islamic headscarves from public schools.' Bowen concludes that., 'Muslims are adapting like everyone else and are divided like everyone else.'

Additionally, with integration in mind, it might just be worth once again stating the obvious, namely, that there are British Muslims who are now leading politicians, cricketers and actors. Some, like Kamila Shamsie, even write novels.

Of course, the picture is not entirely rosy to say the least, as the events of the last few days have definitely shown. Unfortunately, as British and US Muslim intellectuals like Ziauddin Sardar and Khaled Abou El-Fadl have been keen to point out, the Saudis have deployed their oil wealth to spread their toxic message of intolerance far and wide, even to the extent of doctoring English translations of the Qur'an to reflect it. Anti-Semitism is, unsurprisingly, part and parcel of that message. And that's before we begin to also consider the influence of, say, Deobandism or Hizb-ut-Tahrir.

For anyone who wishes to take the temperature of Islam in the UK in particular, I would therefore recommend the following publications:

View attachment 95915

View attachment 95916
View attachment 95917
Excellent points all, but as we all know, it’s never the centrists with moderate views that define movements or the feelings of others towards them.

Multiculturalism is, in most modern European countries, ubiquitous and welcomed. It’s the ragged edges that get both the attention and the column inches.
 
Witnessing what's happened is the biggest recruitment drive for Hamas in their history. A million kids watching their Family & Friends being deprived of food and water while being slaughtered is something they arnt going to forget and certainly not forgive.
Sadly correct, but this mindset will probably be similar to what the Israeli's will be thinking after last weekends events.
 
Thought Occupied territories went out ten years ago.
As pointed out many many pages ago. The West Bank after the creation of Israel, was an independent Palestinian state.

With the 1948 Israel versus multiple Arab states war (who wanted to remove the Israeli state and didn’t recognise it) - it left a ‘working’ 2 state situation - Israel and Palestine.

In 1948 Arab Egypt attacked the nascent Israel and additionally took over the Gaza Strip in that war, kicking out the Palestinian state.

Jordan invaded Palestine and annexed it in 1950, so effectively 2 Arabian states wiped out the Palestinian state prior to anything that Israel did on the West Bank or Gaza.

1956 Israel along with UK & France invade Sinai, the Gaza Strip and take control of the Suez Canal, due to imperial issues about Egypt’s Nasser nationalising the Suez Canal.
Under severe pressure from the US and the UN, they all withdraw, Israel back to their 1948 borders.

1967 , Egypt again continues denying access to Israeli ships, and is preemptively attacked by Israel. Jordan and Syria then attack Israel as part of Arab alliances. All 3 Arab nations suffer humiliating losses of territory.
Syria loses the dominating Golan heights, Jordan their Palestinian occupied West Bank, and Egypt their Palestinian occupied Gaza Strip, and their own Sinai.
It is this war and it’s humiliating lose that probably defines the current situation.
Israel rightly or wrongly pre-emptively attacked Egypt, fearing Egypt would be escalating the ongoing border skirmishes.
Israel took control from Arab nations that had previously taken control, of ‘Palestinian ’ territory . It was then that the ‘Palestinian’ cause became something more. After living ‘happily’ under Jordan or Egyptian rule for 20 odd years, living under Israeli rule was different, and the 2 existing states of Palestine and israel from 1948 were drowned out on all sides.

As I’ve previously mentioned on the thread, the Palestinians have a long list of countries they should have animosity to, not just Israel - the League of Nations, UK, the UN, Jordan, Egypt and probably most other Arab nations.

They have been screwed over by their ‘friends’ and their ‘enemies’, for many decades but they have also been screwed over by their ultra orthodox ‘patriots’ for decades (albeit a few less).
 
Last edited:
It is a real shame that Skashion (long gone from here) is not around to put what is happening into context.

What saddens me is the death and destruction on both sides, also the cretins of this country using this conflict for political gain. It has led to the RW of UK politics once again using anti semitism as a stick to beat the Left, that of course pails into significance when lives are being lost on an epic scale.

I do not know enough to really comment in any meaningful way, all i hope is that conflict can be resolved quickly and deaths are kept at a minimum.
 
Now there is a country (Russia) that shells the population of another (Ukraine) for fun.
Nothing like the angst that Isreal gets mind.
I wonder why that is?


Yeah, Russia gets off lightly. It's not like almost every country in the world condemns them for it. (Rightly so)
 
Yeah, Russia gets off lightly. It's not like almost every country in the world condemns them for it. (Rightly so)
The Isrealophobic are nowhere near as loud in their condemnation - and many are totally silent.
You know it as well.
 
Last edited:
Vahid Beheshti, an Iranian dissident who happened to have an Isreali flag, had a nasty experience camped in Trafalger Square.
Hamas supporters harranged him and then tried to attack him and one of the perps was arrested for carrying a big knife.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.