Middle East Conflict

[trueblue1972]

I know they don’t drop letters about evacuation, only hostage info.

Bullshit

 

[Ducado]

When Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, there was no discussion of proportionality until Japan surrendered.
Same thing happened when Hitler attacked Britain.
Sadam was bombed back to the stone age in order to get him out of Kuwait.
The military objective is clear - uproot Hamas from Gaza. Any amount of force it take to achieve that objective is considered proportional according to a British military expert.
America deployed two atomic bombs to force Japan to surrender. Israel will drop any amount of ordinance that is required to force Hamas to either surrender or be defeated.
You may not like it. But that is the rule of war.
Israel has asked civilians to move to the South. According to international law, they have complied with the rules. Any civilian that gets caught in the cross fire will be treated as collateral damage. It is unfortunate but that's what happens when you go to war.

You know that i am convinced that we have some absolute psychopaths who post on here, there are little children been killed mothers losing their sons and daughters, and you call it collateral damage, wen is you blood lust going to be sated? Perhaps the deaths of 100s of thousands would make you happy

 

[halfcenturyup]

Genocide was what Hamas did to the Israeli civilians on October 7.
Asking civilians to move out from a war zone is complying with the international rules of engagement. The civilians can choose to stay put but Israel will not be held responsible if the civilians get caught in a crossfire.

This is another of those ridiculous points that weakens the arguments being put forward here.

Please explain to me how what Hamas did on October 7 was genocide referencing any legal studies you can find on the topic.

Another is that there is no alternative approach the Israelis could take. It's all nonsense and adds nothing to the debate.

 

[Username Required]

Crazy the knock on effect which has angry people attacking jewish people in London and the Tel Aviv plane in Pakistan.

This tit for tat retaliation will go nowhere, ceasefire and hand back hoatages before more death takes innocent lives.

It was Dagestan mate. 85% Muslim.

Dagestan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Plane targeted at Dagestan airport struck again by mob after diversion

A plane was targeted at an airport in Dagestan by an anti-Semitic mob who demanded to see passengers' passports.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Kremlin reacts to anti-Jewish riot in Dagestan

Russian President Vladimir Putin will discuss alleged Western information warfare after a riot in Dagestan, spokesman Dmitry Peskov said

www.rt.com

The head of Dagestan, Sergey Melikov, has denounced the actions of the rioters.

 

[Ducado]

Israel has the right to defend itself that is a given no one could disagree,certainly not me

Here's the kicker, do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves ?

 

[Eebo]

You would be correct if you assume Israel thinks and acts like you.
But Israel is different. They actually care about civilians - both in Gaza and in Israel. Many Gazans (adult and children) are treated in Israeli hospital. One of the female hostage runs a charity which transfers Gaza children to Israeli hospitals for treatment. Her kidnap and possibly endless rape is her reward for being a good person.

Israel provides water and fuel to Gaza. Israel provides jobs to more than 70,000 Gazans who cross the border every day. Some sources say it's even up to 200,000 that crosses the border every day.

Israel does not have to do this. They could act like Egypt and slam everything shut.

Instead of being grateful, they are repaid with terror, death and violence.
Something is inherently wrong with that kind of mindset.

Sorry, but this is an attempt to justify terror by the side you obviously support.

What the whole World can see on the news is the exact opposite, you can't watch it without being struck by Israel's total and utter disregard for the lives of Palestinians.

The Hamas terrorism now looks like pretty small scale compared to what Israel is doing as revenge. The scale of suffering is many times greater and it is only if you value Jewish lives more than Palestinian lives that you can really argue that this is justified. This is why sympathy for Israel is rapidly evaporating.

As for the "'possibly endless rape" allegations is there a verified source or is that just something you are speculating about to inflame emotions and generate sympathy? I hope to God (if there actually was one) it isn't true but even if it is, that still doesn't justify bloodlust towards people who have nothing to do with it. Why should a Palestinian child die because of that? Would it make you or the poor lady feel better? Terror and collective punishment against civilians on either side is appalling and unjustified but you seem to saying that it is ok if Israel does it.

just today you have Israel ordering the evacuation of a hospital without providing a safe alternative or any guarantees of safe passage while knowing that it is impossible to evacuate seriously injured people.

One sides brutality is feeding the other sides brutality and ratcheting up the hate and extremism, and you are condoning this.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Mine and your views on this subject are so far apart it's probably not worth debating this any further.

If you think that killing thousands of completely innocent, defenceless children is acceptable under any circumstances, that's very, very sad. To describe Israel's response as proportional is utterly warped.

The right path is often the hardest and Netanyahu is not a strong enough person to walk it.

Like I mentioned earlier, there's nothing about proportionality in military doctrine.
Out of interest, what would you consider as proportional in Israel's response?
Do you want them to enter Gaza and kidnap hundreds of Palestinian women, elderly and children?
Do you want them to blow up worshippers in a mosque full of young people (equivalent of the music festival)?
Israel is fighting according to the manual of an advanced military.
How many people did Japan killed during their attack on Pearl Harbour compared to the overall casualty of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Proportionality in a war is the military force required to achieve the stated objective. In this case, whatever it takes to uproot Hamas from Gaza would be considered proportional.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Sorry, but this is an attempt to justify terror by the side you obviously support.

What the whole World can see on the news is the exact opposite, you can't watch it without being struck by Israel's total and utter disregard for the lives of Palestinians.

The Hamas terrorism now looks like pretty small scale compared to what Israel is doing as revenge. The scale of suffering is many times greater and it is only if you value Jewish lives more than Palestinian lives that you can really argue that this is justified. This is why sympathy for Israel is rapidly evaporating.

As for the "'possibly endless rape" allegations is there a verified source or is that just something you are speculating about to inflame emotions and generate sympathy? I hope to God (if there actually was one) it isn't true but even if it is, that still doesn't justify bloodlust towards people who have nothing to do with it. Why should a Palestinian child die because of that? Would it make you or the poor lady feel better? Terror and collective punishment against civilians on either side is appalling and unjustified but you seem to saying that it is ok if Israel does it.

just today you have Israel ordering the evacuation of a hospital without providing a safe alternative or any guarantees of safe passage while knowing that it is impossible to evacuate seriously injured people.

One sides brutality is feeding the other sides brutality and ratcheting up the hate and extremism, and you are condoning this.

I actually support the ordinary Palestinian cause. I want their children to have access to the same opportunities my kids have. Access to good education, safety and peace. But that's not going to happen with Hamas at the helm.

If you love the Palestinians, you should support the Israeli attempt to uproot Hamas from Gaza.

 

[Pelegrinni]

It's worth pointing out that the "warnings" are being broadcast by IDF spokesmen in English & Hebrew, over the internet or on TV.

The people supposedly being warned don't speak English and have no internet access or electricity.

They are nothing more than a fig leaf to excuse the death and destruction that has happened and is to come. "Oh well we warned them, not our fault".

Straight out of the IRA play book.

Yeah but you forgot about the leaflets that were dropped from the sky that was shown on Al Jezera.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Show me in "international law" where it says you can ask a civiliation population to leave and if they don't you can bomb them.

Listen to military experts debate this on Youtube. Many have stated that if a civilian infrastructure is being used for military purpose, it automatically becomes a legitimate military target.
Warning civilians to leave the facility is to confirm that they are not the primary target of any attack. Should the civilians refuse to leave, then the consequences is on them.