Motion - the country is completely broken

Fred_Quimby said:
It will never happen. Why should they? 70+ seat majority. Do what they like. They know they will be completely wiped out if they call a GE so not going to happen.

They are relying on short memories and a right wing media to change things around in two years time.
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I know. That’s why I liken it to a dictatorship at present. They know they can do what the fuck they like and that is exactly what they are doing.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I know. That’s why I liken it to a dictatorship at present. They know they can do what the fuck they like and that is exactly what they are doing.
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It certainly more closely resembles a dictatorship when you weigh the % of the electorate that voted for them.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
If you mean by changing it, avoiding leaving the EU, that (imo) would have been disastrous, in many ways more disastrous than the consequences we are now bearing witness to. It would certainly have been even more divisive, and once the die was cast we had to (imo) see it through and deal with the consequences, which we now are.

The fact you’ve cited five PM’s in six years is quite telling, given the 37 years that preceded it, a time of pretty much constant economic growth and political stability (within the EU), had exactly the same number.

The people’s choice to which you refer has unleashed forces of chaos and uncertainty which has left us poorly equipped to deal with the challenges that the whole of the western world has faced in recent years, and will continue to do do.

The people chose, and it’s absolutely correct that choice was honoured, but don’t be surprised when people who stridently opposed it feel compelled to point out the predictions they made at the time have become reality, especially when that reality is having such a profound effect on this country and its future standing in the world.
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No, I meant changing the government.

Agree with all of the above.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
If you mean by changing it, avoiding leaving the EU, that (imo) would have been disastrous, in many ways more disastrous than the consequences we are now bearing witness to. It would certainly have been even more divisive, and once the die was cast we had to (imo) see it through and deal with the consequences, which we now are.

The fact you’ve cited five PM’s in six years is quite telling, given the 37 years that preceded it, a time of pretty much constant economic growth and political stability (within the EU), had exactly the same number.

The people’s choice to which you refer has unleashed forces of chaos and uncertainty which has left us poorly equipped to deal with the challenges that the whole of the western world has faced in recent years, and will continue to do do.

The people chose, and it’s absolutely correct that choice was honoured, but don’t be surprised when people who stridently opposed it feel compelled to point out the predictions they made at the time have become reality, especially when that reality is having such a profound effect on this country and its future standing in the world.
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I view this through selfish eyes. These cunts have trashed the economy and fabric of this country so effectively it will take a great deal of pain and time to recover. 10 years? What does that mean to me? I may not see the end of it. My kids will need to go through this period when they should be building their own wealth and family stabiity. My grandkids are all going through education and will be hopefully into Uni at the end of this next decade. What faces them and how will this period shape them? I can tell you that one of them is suffering now from the lack of support for mental health following the pandemic. What will we be expected to do? Suck it up without complaint. Pay for it through our taxes and the stress that this puts on almost every individual and family in the land. And all the while knowing that all it takes are a criminally biased media and a gullible electorate to have the Tory wheel spinning again.

I cannot understand for the life of me why there isn't more anger than there currently is.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Not since voting in Johnson they haven’t. Enough has happened since then for a government that had even the slightest hint of integrity to go back for a proper mandate. What Johnson promised at the last election is not what we have. Nobody voted for the policies of Truss or Sunac. From that perspective we may as well be a dictatorship. That’s without even going near the Scottish question.
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Again, agree entirely, but we are talkibg different timeframes here. Johnson only stepped down what 5-6 months ago? I don't think we can just discard everything before it and use that as a cut-off point.

People voted in Cameron on the promise of a brexit choice. Voted in Theresa and Boris on the promise of delivering that choice. Truss and Sunak are just consequences of those votes and that choice. As is the current situation. Got what we thought we wanted.

It is imo too far gone now to meaningfully change any time soon, regardless of who is in power.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
It will never happen. Why should they? 70+ seat majority. Do what they like. They know they will be completely wiped out if they call a GE so not going to happen.

They are relying on short memories and a right wing media to change things around in two years time.
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And it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, if it works. Again.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I know. That’s why I liken it to a dictatorship at present. They know they can do what the fuck they like and that is exactly what they are doing.
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Not really.

Last week the education secretary abandoned a bill because there was no room in the parliamentary schedule, the reason given was that time was needed to deal with the economic crisis....

Really?



There's plenty of time, if the government bothered to turn up.

But the government is nowhere to be seen, we have an invisible Prime Minister and no legislative programme. No other western government has gone AWOL like this, but ours has.

When Andrew Marr reckons the Tories won't last two years and he's no fruit loop right winger or left wing radical, my hunch is there'll come a time when Sunak reappears and he'll not be able to get one of his "socialist" policies through Parliament, coz the ERG will decide it's time to regroup and start again and pulling the plug on this Sunak/Blair/Cameron/New Labour/one nation Tory mush is the first step.

But it's not just the ERG.

There are three distinct groups in the Parliamentary Tory Party, the Boris lovers, the tax cutting Truss contingent and the Sunak "realists".

They can't hold together that long.

You have to see this through the eyes of someone like Mark Francois or Nadine Dorries. They look at Sunak and they see Blair. Francois and Dorries go back to their constituencies and their party members are angry, they were denied their chance to resurrect Johnson, their girl Truss was ousted, the only thing that unites them is Sunak's not their man. What's the point of being in government when there's no juicy right wing policies in the pipeline? At present there's nothing except Hunt's tax rises, higher interest rates and most important of all for Tory Party members, falling house prices!

Truth be told, Shire Tories and the Francois/Dorries gangs want Sunak's government gone almost as much as you do and sometime over the next 12 months they'll come to the conclusion there's no point propping this shit up any longer, their association with it is doing them more harm than good and it'll fold.
 
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The perfect fumble said:
Not really.

Last week the education secretary abandoned a bill because there was no room in the parliamentary schedule, the reason given was that time was needed to deal with the economic crisis....

Really?



There's plenty of time, if the government bothered to turn up.

But the government is nowhere to be seen, we have an invisible Prime Minister and no legislative programme. No other western government has gone AWOL like this, but ours has.

When even Andrew Marr reckons this government won't last two years and he's no fruit loop right winger or left wing radical, my hunch is there'll come a time when Sunak reappears and he'll not be able to get one of his "socialist" policies through Parliament coz the ERG will decide it's time to regroup and start again and pulling the plug on this Sunak/Blair/Cameron/New Labour/one nation Tory mush is the first step.

You have to see this through the eyes of someone like Mark Francois, they look at Sunak and they see Blair. Francois goes back to his constituency and his party members are angry, they were denied their chance to resurrect Johnson, Sunak's not their man. There's no juicy right wing policies in the pipeline, at present there's nothing except Hunt's tax rises, higher interest rates and most important of all for Tory Party members, falling house prices!

Truth be told, Shire Tories and the Francois/Mogg cabal want Sunak's government gone almost as much as you do and sometime over the next 12 moths or so it'll come to a head and it'll fold.
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Yeh, but, they still have immigration and if, like me, you live around here you will know how vitally important it is to keep the gammons on side and don’t forget it is what the ‘red wall’ voted for.
 
inchy14 said:
Yet these cunts in charge will be pissing themselves at her generosity and saying she’s a fool for doing it for free. When will those supposedly in charge start showing the same level of kindness? Never is my guess, and we class ourselves as one of the leading nations in the world… do me a favour. Starving kids, dirty kids, the amount of homelessness. I’m ashamed that we’ve all allowed it to get like this.
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Empathy is at serious drought levels, I don’t know how some lying, greedy, cheating fuckers sleep. It keeps me awake at night but these seem to sleep like a baby.
 
inchy14 said:
Yet these cunts in charge will be pissing themselves at her generosity and saying she’s a fool for doing it for free. When will those supposedly in charge start showing the same level of kindness? Never is my guess, and we class ourselves as one of the leading nations in the world… do me a favour. Starving kids, dirty kids, the amount of homelessness. I’m ashamed that we’ve all allowed it to get like this.
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We didn't 'allow' it to get like this. We chose this.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
Yeh, but, they still have immigration and if, like me, you live around here you will know how vitally important it is to keep the gammons on side and don’t forget it is what the ‘red wall’ voted for.
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But they won't "solve" immigration to anyone's satisfaction over the next two years.

They're hoping the public will support them against the strikers, that's why they're keeping the strikes going. But this is desperate stuff, they've run out of luck and soon they'll run out of time.
 
Follow the money. Every year there is more money made so where does it go? It’s all created digitally from debt, the bankers love debt / deficits as it means more money has been created by private banks.

Governments treat us like kids being ripped off at the fairground.
 
Coatigan said:
We are on the 5th Prime Minister since the Brexit vote outcome, having had 2 additional general elections called. There were chances to change it. Including David Camerom who won it on a promise of that referendum, that's 3 times the general public voted for Brexit over a government. People's choice.
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They wanted it, plenty will have got rich from it.
Unfortunately they got the result of people turning on each other but it’s simply not something that uneducated people should vote on.
It’s like me asking the kids to vote on having McDonald’s every day for breakfast, dinner & tea. They’ll vote for it not aware of the impact & McDonalds gets rich.
 
cheekybids said:
Follow the money. Every year there is more money made so where does it go? It’s all created digitally from debt, the bankers love debt / deficits as it means more money has been created by private banks.

Governments treat us like kids being ripped off at the fairground.
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I was saying this to someone the other day. The 'economy' supposedly grows year on year. Look back 50 years when I was 15. Council run Residential Homes for old people, Parks, Football Pitches and Public land kept to an immaculate standard. Council homes for those who needed them with front and rear gardens...I could go on. Where HAS all the money gone ?
 
bluebaja said:
I was saying this to someone the other day. The 'economy' supposedly grows year on year. Look back 50 years when I was 15. Council run Residential Homes for old people, Parks, Football Pitches and Public land kept to an immaculate standard. Council homes for those who needed them with front and rear gardens...I could go on. Where HAS all the money gone ?
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People had discernibly less ‘stuff’ back then is the simple answer. Not sure it’s made us richer as a society, mind.
 
bluebaja said:
I was saying this to someone the other day. The 'economy' supposedly grows year on year. Look back 50 years when I was 15. Council run Residential Homes for old people, Parks, Football Pitches and Public land kept to an immaculate standard. Council homes for those who needed them with front and rear gardens...I could go on. Where HAS all the money gone ?
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Society and altruism has been replaced by want and greed.
 
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