mancity1 said:
BobKowalski said:
...turning to Pellegrini I guess one point going for him is that he plays nice with others and will do as he is told which from a DoF perspective is probably a managers best asset. I love Bobby Manc but he doesn't play well with others and politically this may cost him.
And if you get to Pellegrini's age and have won nothing of note I would be sceptical he has the necessary drive to ever do so. Getting an unfancied side to play above themselves is one thing but leading a top tier team from the front where you are expected to win the major prizes is a totally different ball game and his time at Real Madrid does not inspire confidence...
Its a bit like AVB at Chelsea and AVB at Spurs. Much as the media are prepping for a major Spurs wankathon (again) there is a world of difference in managing the two teams and a world of difference in the expectation placed on both teams. For Spurs finishing 3rd makes you manager of the year material. At Chelsea finishing 2nd makes you a fucking loser and winner of a P45
Mancini irrespective of what some people think has demonstrated through actual silverware that he can bring success at the top level. We can argue if that success is enough or whether other managers like Jose could bring even bigger success at this level - which is fair and legitimate debate - but not the Pellegrini's of this world. Some people can run a corner shop and others can run Tesco's. But don't think doing well at the former makes you even close to being competent at running the latter.
As per usual Bob K , eloquently put and right on the money.
With respect, I disagree that Bob K is on the money. He dismisses Pellegrini's stint at Real in a single sentence, saying it "doesn't inspire confidence". In fact, while Real may have failed in the Cups in Pellegrini's only season there, they gained what at the time was the club's record points haul in La Liga. They lost out on the title because what was rated by many as the best club team ever did slightly better. I'd suggest that in terms of showing his ability to handle the spotlight and the pressure, he actually came out of it very well.
In my opinion, it's disingenuous to characterise him as someone who can run a corner shop while Mancini can run Tesco. It's worth noting that he's taken charge of big teams in different South American leagues and won trophies with them all. And let's put his time at Real into some kind of perspective: if Barca had been forcibly relegated for breaches of the rules and Real awarded the title after that season, then been able to buy two top Barca players on the cheap to reinforce their new found dominance, maybe we'd be speaking of his record at Real in the same terms as posters on here laud Mancini's successes at Inter.
I appreciate that Mancini had improved Inter before that first title was awarded. But then Pellegrini in his only season improved Real's points haul by 18 points compared to the previous year, moulding into an effective team a disparate, unbalanced squad full of big egos that resulted from a ridiculously haphazard recruitment policy beyond his control.
So Pellegrini is a coach who's performed well (or better than that) wherever he's been, has a reputation for playing attractive football and for being a highly astute tactician. He has experience of being at probably the biggest club in the world. I'm not arguing that he's in the same league as Mourinho or would give us the same trophy-winning potential that Jose would, but he deserves a bit more respect than he's being shown on here, in my view.
However, none of this addresses the context, which is that Txiki Begiristain will play a key role in what happens here. If anyone doubts Txiki's pedigree, read Graham Hunter's
Barca, the account of the development of that club over the first decade of the current century. It paints our DoF in an extremely positive light, as the architect in may ways of the current football phenomenon at the Catalan club. He's been recruited by City not to produce a copy of Barca but to create a sustainable model for ongoing success that fits our own club, so we can't expect everything he did to be slavishly replicated. However, the way he went about his job at Barca is obviously going to be a good guide.
In his excellent book, Hunter calls Txiki "robust" and "football bright". The writer then goes on to say that Begiristain has: "... a profile and appetite which will one day adapt perfectly to a leading club in the Premier League - if they are ready to embrace a top-to-bottom conversion in the scouting, coaching and education of their young players". City certainly are willing to embrace that, and we'd have a different DoF if we weren't.
However, having the right first team coach is also crucial. A year ago, Chelsea were reportedly very keen to recruit Begiristain, mainly, it seems, because they thought his presence would persuade Pep Guardiola to take the manager's job. This is what Txiki said last April: "It's not enough to have a technical director who only deals with the academy and grassroots work. He's also got to be able to influence the first team as well and be able to take the vision forward. It's pointless having a technical director getting the grassroots football to go in one direction and develop a style of play if the first-team coach does not agree with those ideas."
Now, I think it's reasonable to suppose that Txiki is at City and not at Chelsea because we'll meet those conditions in which he wants to work. In other words, while the Sheikh (advised by Simon Pearce and Khaldoon, in particular) will make a final decision on the manager, I believe we can expect Txiki to have a major input. (This, of course, assumes that they remain resolved to go down the route of backing Txiki to restructure the entire football operation at the club with a view to serving the long-term interests).
I’ll nail my colours to the mast here: I don’t think Mancini will take us forward from here. I like him, and think he’s the best manager we’ve had since I started watching City in 1975 (actually, I’d probably bracket him together with Howard Kendall). I’m grateful for what he’s done for us. To nick and adapt a line I loved from David Lacey of The Guardian in his report on England’s 5-1 win over the German’s in Munich, just as Bogart and Bergman will always have Paris, so we and Mancini will always have Wembley in April and May 2011, Old Trafford in October 2011, and that amazing day in May 2012.
However, in my view, since approximately Christmas 2011, when other teams started to work out how better to stifle our attacking play, Roberto has shown no real sign of finding a solution to that. (We’re now talking about well over a year in which the glittering form of August to December 2011 has largely been but a distant and flickering memory, which makes that the exception rather than the rule under Mancini). I’m also in the camp that disagrees with those who state he’ll suddenly start to prosper in the Champions League if only he’s given more opportunities to do so. I wouldn’t necessarily berate him for failing to make the knockout stages this season in view of the opponents we faced in our group, but to me it says it all that we didn’t win a single game, taking a single point from an Ajax outfit easily dispatched twice by both Dortmund and Madrid. Nor do I think we can say that, on our performances, the results flattered our opponents.
As an aside, let me note here that I utterly loathe the Champions League: I see it as a tedious, overhyped, bloated wankfest of a tournament that has enriched a small number of big European clubs at the expense of other footballing competitions and while damaging other teams outside the self-serving elite. Nonetheless, it’s crucial to City that we start to do much better than we have in the last couple of years. This applies in terms of the owners’ ambitions, in terms of our prestige and thus ability to attract high class players to join us, and most importantly in terms of the financial considerations now that the era of Financial ‘Fair’ Play is upon us.
I also believe that the stability argument is misplaced here. The received wisdom seems to be that a change in manager also inevitably results in a major overhaul of the playing staff. We, though, are set to have one anyway if reports are to be believed. FFP arguably dictates that overpaid squad members will need to be moved on, which means that this summer would be an ideal time to make a change if there’s one to be made in the next couple of years.
Let’s for a moment here accept my hypothesis a few paragraphs back that the recruitment of Txiki suggests a willingness on the part of the board and owner to be persuaded by any recommendations he may make with regard to the manager’s position. The question is whether Txiki will see Mancini as someone he can work with bearing in mind the remit that the DoF has been given. Obviously here we’re into the realms of guesswork, but my conjecture is that he’ll see Roberto as a fit in terms of the style of football. Save for a few months at the back end of 2011, I suspect that the default method under the Italian will have been too one-paced and ponderous. Nor do I believe that Txiki will see Mancini as someone whose strength will lie in bringing through whatever kids we decide are worth a crack (maybe Guidetti or Rekkik if he improves on his current form away on loan).
Moreover, if Txiki doesn’t believe in Roberto and wants to bring in his own man, then this is the ideal time. In effect, he has an excuse. We’re currently a long way behind United in the league and have regressed in points terms compared to last season. Notwithstanding an absolute woman of a draw, failing to win a single game in Europe was a pretty pitiful effort. In other words, he has an excuse now: if he wants to strike, the iron is probably hot enough. Of course I may be wrong because I don’t have a hotline to Txiki’s thoughts but, in my view, those on here who are suggesting that Mancini is clearly safe at this stage are allowing their hearts to rule their heads.
I’ll nail another set of colours to the mast. If I were in Txiki’s position, I’d go all out to recruit Mourinho. I’ve no doubt that Jose wouldn’t be ideal either in terms of our DoF’s blueprint. However, I consider that the Portuguese offers a potential for success that could electrify our project. Mancini, with his relative failure to answer the way teams have nullified us for more than a year and his underwhelming career record in the Champions League, doesn’t in my view have a compelling case for Txiki to compromise his way of doing things because of what he’ll win us: I’ve no doubt we’d continue to qualify for the CL automatically under him and maybe snatch the odd Cup. However, if Txiki doesn’t view Roberto as the man to put in motion the implementation of the long-term plan, then I don’t see that there’s an argument that the Italian will guarantee short-term success. If you want short-term success, Jose’s your go-to guy.
Of course, Txiki has passed Jose over once before. Those were different circumstances, but maybe he’ll decide to do so again because he sees City’s interests as being served by developing the club in a different way. Personally, based all the reading and research I’ve been able to do, I’m delighted to have Txiki at City. My belief is that, if we all gather together in ten years’ time and see where the club is then, we’ll be glad we hired him. For me, if he eases Mancini through the exit door and if he passes on the chance to mount a serious pursuit of Mourinho as a replacement, then in both cases his track record would make me trust his judgment.
It’s worth looking at the two managerial appointments that Txiki was instrumental in driving at Barca. Both were outstanding successes, and illustrate that he’s not afraid of making picks that other people would consider highly questionable. Not only that, but was vindicated in spectacular fashion on each occasion.
In 2003, Txiki came on board as part of a new regime at a club that had just failed even to qualify for the CL and was losing money hand over fist. Frank Rijkaard was named as new manager. His track record was taking Holland to the semis in Euro 2000 with a squad that also reached the last four of the 1998 World Cup under Guus Hiddink, then being relegated with Sparta Rotterdam in his only season in club football. Post-Barca, he was sacked by Galatasaray early in his second season with the club in mid table, having failed to make the CL the previous campaign. He’s recently been fired by Saudi Arabia, having crashed out of the qualifiers for the 2014 World Cup. But at Barca he won La Liga twice as well as the Champions League during his first three seasons.
In 2007, Txiki advised the Barca board that Rijkaard had, as the argot puts it, ‘lost the dressing room’ and should be replaced, but this didn’t happen for another year. When the change was finally made, it came down to a choice between Mourinho and a former Barca player whose entire coaching experience was a solitary year with the Barcelona B team. Admittedly, he achieved promotion with them, but it was from the Spanish fourth tier. He won a regionalised Catalan league comprising mainly village teams, and then a set of play offs against more village teams. Yet Txiki advocated picking him ahead of Mourinho, and Pep Guardiola’s subsequent trophy haul more than justified that decision.
I personally wouldn’t be surprised if we did go for Pellegrini, and in my opinion that would be a far better choice than people seem to believe. He’s a genuinely good manager, who performed well in his sole year inarguably club football’s biggest job. He was treated shabbily by Real Madrid but has shown his quality again at Malaga. He’d play attractive football, is a cultural fit with the ethos Txiki is seeking to instil and would fit with the DoF model. I’d personally quite excited by the idea of a squad remoulded by Txiki in the summer and coached by Pellegrini, though I appreciate I’m in a minority on this board in holding that view.
But whoever is in charge next season, I think we’ll have a squad that’s better equipped to challenge that we’ve had during this current season. Ultimately, too, with a very astute operator like Begiristain advising the board as to who should be manager, then whether it’s Mancini, Mourinho, Pellegrini or someone else, I’ll put aside my own prejudices and back the incumbent. I think Txiki’s record justifies our backing his assessment.
