Mourhino is on his way to City.....

[Anonymous]

Petrusha

That was an excellent post....

Have to say you nearly swayed me into letting Mancini go this season..

Thinking about it, is it our loyalty to Mancini after winning the league and cup after being in the wilderness for so long that blinds us into sticking with Mancini?

Or is it the fear that the next manager will win nothing and we will go backwards? As in if its not broke why change it...

Not sure it "...blinds us..." waspish. I think it's a case of "we've got a manager who now has a proven record in England so stick with him for now."

Some would argue that's a comfort zone mentality, others argue it's stability and common sense, others still just want what they perceive as the best available.

Given the current climate (what Mancini's achieved, los chicos de Barca and the (un)availability of suitable replacements) I'd be ver surprised if we pulled the trigger in summer.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

are we all still in here then?

 

[Anonymous]

This is the whole point though Billy. In all the scenarios I’m playing out in my head (not that I have any clue about these things I hasten to add), they all seem to come back to sticking with Mancini for one more season.

We get someone new, we have to get a whole new back room team and that person’s player choices too – assuming they are in line with what Txiki wants for the club.

Alternatively, we stick with Mancini, he falls into line with Txiki’s plan and we get the players Mancini wants. These players then, if agreed with Txiki, should fit what both want for the club so that even if Mancini goes next season, then (theoretically at least) it shouldn’t be too big a problem for us.

We are transitioning from the previous “buy to get on the map” model to the “build the dynasty” model. It’s all down to whether Mancini is happy with his role in that or he wants something different.

Mancini isn't the guy you think he is IMO. I think his comment about reporting only to Khaldoun and Sheikh Mansour tells you all you need to know about how happy he is working with a DoF no matter how much he publicly makes nice with Txiki. Again, I know this is repeating something I've posted before but these comments from Roberto sum up what his views are/were on the job.

Maybe for me it’s difficult because I have only been here for 18 months or so. Maybe I need to have more control of the team and the other situations. For a manager that’s very important.

Maybe if I win the Premier League this season it will be different. It’s important for the manager to have control over the players and the medical staff and the other situations. It can improve.

If the manager loses, the manager is sacked. Because of this I think the manager needs to take every decision and if he makes a mistake he pays for it.

Stikes me as he won the league and the opposite has happened.

Apologies if I am mistaken but aren't those quotes referencing the whole Marwood situation from a while back?

Clearly Mancini wants it all, but given Sorriano and Txiki's appointments, then even he should be able to see he is not going to get that, so he either "adopts & adapts" (one for all us ITIL heads!) or he ships out.

Trust me, Mancini is exactly the person I think he is! ;)

 

[Danamy]

Petrusha

That was an excellent post....

Have to say you nearly swayed me into letting Mancini go this season..

Thinking about it, is it our loyalty to Mancini after winning the league and cup after being in the wilderness for so long that blinds us into sticking with Mancini?

Or is it the fear that the next manager will win nothing and we will go backwards? As in if its not broke why change it...

Like Petrusha quite rightly stated, look at the Barca model when these two were at the helm.

They're here to make us go forward and succeed, failure's not an option with these guy's, we need to trust them whatever decisions they make, even if it means keeping Mancini.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Alternatively, we stick with Mancini, he falls into line with Txiki’s plan and we get the players Mancini wants. These players then, if agreed with Txiki, should fit what both want for the club so that even if Mancini goes next season, then (theoretically at least) it shouldn’t be too big a problem for us.

We are transitioning from the previous “buy to get on the map” model to the “build the dynasty” model. It’s all down to whether Mancini is happy with his role in that or he wants something different.

There's a contradiction there in your very first sentence. If he falls in line with Txkiki's plans he doesn't get the players he wants, he gets the players he's given (on the assumption that our D of F model follows the typical one). I haven't seen any evidence that Mancini can or will work that way and I can suggest a few pieces of evidence that he won't.

Mancini was the one sat with a face on going "Ask Marwood", embarrassing The Sheikh last summer. Is he going sit there going "Ask Begiristain" next summer if he's not given the pick of football's world class players? Is he going to sit there in the winter using Txiki's recruitment policy as a beard to cover his own failings?

He was at great pains to point out that he didn't report to him, or Soriano, in that self-serving embarrassment of an interview he gave the other week. What was that about if it wasn't a big "Fuck Off" to the men at the top of the club.

In the summer Mancini talked about Ferguson's total control at the club, about this was something he wanted to work towards and that would take time. That's certainly not going to happen.

Perhaps less relevant, but also interesting to me, when told that one of our coaches had leaked a plan to play 4-3-3 accross the board next year, he beligerently replied "Well noone has told me".

Whilst he's made the appropriate noises about "good guys" and all that, I'd say that it is fairly obvious to anyone who knows the guy that Mancini is not the type to just slip into a subservient role like this. In fact I'd say that the minute Begiristain was announced as D of F a great storm cloud loomed on the horizon.

This is purely my opinion of course, but I think there are legitimate questions as to whether either men can work together. Neither chose the other of course.

 

[OB1]

At least there has been some proper debate over several pages thanks to Petrusha's epic.

Nothing has yet convinced me that sacking Mancini in order to appoint Pellegrini is a good idea.

I'm delighted that we have Txiki but I do not believe that he is infallible (no one is). His record on managers is very good but two appointments doesn't count as a statistically sound sample. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but not all of his player recruitment was a glorious success. I think there is a fair sized risk that he could go for appointing a manager that is too compliant.

Whatever you may think of Mancini, he has been a serial winner of trophies.

I think you're reaching for an ideal which may not come to fruition to be honest. You're right, some of his acquisitions at Barca were poor, but there was logic in them all (Ibra, Chygrynskiy, Hleb, and Kerrison are probably viewed as the biggest failures or wastes of money). I do think he's going to want a manager who is compliant to the way he wants to shape the footballing side of things, but that's the job he's been given. It would be pointless IMO giving him a job like that but saying "you can only replace Mancini with Mourinho or Klopp".

Not sure what the ideal you think I'm reaching for is; unless you mean: only sack Mancini if an exceptional replacement is lined-up. I agree that I could well be disappointed on that score.

I don't expect Txiki to get everyting right and I will be worried that he hasn't got it right if he appoints Pellegrini. I think Pellegrini is a good manager but I am far from convinced that he would win more than Bobby or improve on what Bobby might do in future seasons in the UCL.

 

[Anonymous]

Not sure what the ideal you think I'm reaching for is; unless you mean: only sack Mancini if an exceptional replacement is lined-up. I agree that I could well be disappointed on that score.

I don't expect Txiki to get everyting right and I will be worried that he hasn't got it right if he appoints Pellegrini. I think Pellegrini is a good manager but I am far from convinced that he would win more than Bobby or improve on what Bobby might do in future seasons in the UCL.

To be honest, and it's probably a reflection of the fact I think Mancini's time at City has run it's course, but I wouldn't be worried one way or the other if it was an obvious exceptional candidate or someone from left field. On Pellegrini, I think Laudrup's a far more likely candidate.

 

[1.618034]

I don't think the club is at a crossroads, more Mancini is. Either he fits in with the long term strategic plan that is in place or he ships out is more where I believe we are.

If he stays then he has the summer to address whatever deficiencies he sees with whatever resources are provided by Txiki. If he goes, newbie works under the same constraints.

Do those constraints then limit our options in terms of replacing Mancini? Would Moo accept those constraints? As we've said, Pep is in place at Bayern, Klopp looks fair set to stay at Dortmund, Pellegrini spent lavishly (£200m on 4 players) to finish second in his one season at Madrid, can't see Wenger leaving Arsenal for us - unless he gets the push in which case I either see him taking a break or moving abroad, Ancelloti looks a shoo-in for Madrid if Jose goes.

Suddenly the field shrinks considerably and perhaps we review how best we can make it work with the current incumbent making it plain "fail in Europe this year and it's over" as by that time there may be more canadidates that are suitable and available, the alternative to that being Mancini will have delivered.

Probably the best post I've seen on the subject.

It's a point of view which is rooted in the idea that the owners can't get someone they want to replace Mancini. In that sense it sort of goes without saying no ? I don't think anyone is advocating just sacking Mancini then seeing what happens - but I think it's also fair to say that if options are being looked at and a better one in the eyes of the owners presents itself, then Mancini goes.

On the whole "give him one more season but then he goes if he doesn't improve on this season" - the one problem with that is players acquisition this summer and the shaping of the squad vis a vis player contracts set to expire. If this is all Txiki's domain, then I think Mancini will walk anyway. If Mancini has a big say, then it's pointless giving him his players then sacking him 12 months later if it hasn't worked out.

It's a conundrum for the powers that be IMO.

I don't see that there'll be much difference between the "acquisitions" we can expect this summer whoever's in charge... I'd say that Txiki will have a major input in to who we sign/how we play as it seems his remit is to have the right types of players in to fit the style... Therefore surely any incumbent manager's style will have to fit that and therefore would want/get, basically, the same squad to work with.

As to who that manager will be then I haven't the foggiest and like Petrusha in his fabulous post I'll trust the powers that be to go with the right man.

The big problem RM has got though is, obviously, his CL record, which frankly is poor and might already have done for him...? Again neither I nor anyone else on here knows that for sure and we'll only find that out at the end of the season. But it is a big question mark.

In the meantime Mancini gets my full support as I consider that he's done a great job, domestically. The way we started and finished last season was superb and I think, most would agree, that one of the main reasons we went backwards this season was because the club (Marwood) didn't give him the players (Nastasic and Rodwell excepted?) he wanted or needed.

We'll see...

 

[BobKowalski]

...

Yet some on here get all arsey and protective about it. It's because it makes them feel insecure because the posters who realise it's a worthy debate are the more knowledgeable ones, in general.

Or just taking the piss. Pompous arse.

 

[Anonymous]

In the meantime Mancini gets my full support as I consider that he's done a great job, domestically. The way we started and finished last season was superb and I think, most would agree, that one of the main reasons we went backwards this season was because the club (Marwood) didn't give him the players (Nastasic and Rodwell excepted?) he wanted or needed.

I'm not sure not getting more players mitigates the team going backwards. And Mancini's been at pains to point out that he did in fact plump for all the players we signed last summer. They weren't his first choices, but they were his choices if you see what i'm saying. Other than that can't argue with your post.

Time will tell but i do think it's significant that even the players are making noises about not knowing whether Mancini will be sacked or not. That's never a good sign if they're saying it publicly.