Moving to 3 at the back then?

[simon23]

I thought Clichy was outstanding yesterday and couldn't do a lot about the goal

oh yeah fully agree....i don't think pep will be happy with how we ended up in that position ....stone s diving in was what led to it..stnad up and it doesn't happen

 

[OB1]

I should've just written 343. :) In my defence the only GCSE I struggled with was maths!

FWIW, yesterday was a 3-2-5 formation; although he did flex things later in the game.

We know that Pep's history suggests his teams frequently play with what amounts to a back three, even when he starts with two full backs. I think it would be dangerous to assume anything about how often he will not field two full backs but not unreasonable to expect a host of tactical variations. I recall checking the average player positions for a run of Bayern games a couple of years back I think it was and he used something like seven different formations in a run of eight games.

My only prediction is that it will be fascinating to watch things unfold.

 

[Phil1]

Its fine having the opposition manager guessing, but some of our players seem unsure as well, and that's not great.

I thought he did OK too, in fact probably the best of the 3, because he concentrated on defending, when playing 3 at the back though, you need specialised 3 at the back players, and at the moment we don't have them, I really hope he doesn't try it again on Wednesday, and use Kolarov as one of the three.

That'll be because we're only 4 months into his tenure. They will pick it up and adapt and we will benefit. I don't think yesterday was an example of players looking unsure. On the contrary - I thought everybody knew exactly what their roles were and only individual mistakes prevented a fully deserved 3 points and rightful compliments from the watching world.

 

[cleavers]

That'll be because we're only 4 months into his tenure.

Obviously, but I don't think that adapting full backs into central defenders in a three is the best way to go, they need to be specialised already into that way of playing for me, and I'm unconvinced that it will work with/for Vinny, even if he stays fit, Stones suits it clearly, but at the moment I'd say he's 1 in 3, and whilst Kolarov started the season well he's not the answer. Fernandhino might fit, though we lose him from better positions, and he's a bit on the small size in an already small team.

As for everyone knowing their role yesterday, Kelechi looked lost for me.

Hey, I'm picking holes in things, but no matter how good some of the football was yesterday, we still only got 1 point, and we shouldn't be happy about that fact, imho.

 

[Marvin]

oh yeah fully agree....i don't think pep will be happy with how we ended up in that position ....stone s diving in was what led to it..stnad up and it doesn't happen

Clichy gave Lukaku too much space. He was trying to shepherd him out wide without committing himself, but should have got a bit closer.

 

[Marvin]

In my interview with Marti Perarnau recently he said to me that we'd see a different kind of City after this international break just gone and that was quite clear from the moment the team was announced yesterday. The first part of the season wasn't so much about tactics as about the players understanding the basics of what a Pep team is (press, work hard, follow instructions, etc). We saw yesterday a huge tactical shift in terms of playing without full backs and also playing with so many attacking players. Personally I thought our build up and control particularly in the first half was truly exceptional. You could see that Koeman had little idea about what he could do and was just sat there hoping we didn't score.

Certainly I can see with our weakness at full back an argument to play that kind of 3222 formation as often as possible.

The team is evolving. No point making too much change too soon, but I don't think we dealt out any tactical master-classes to Koeman.

They retreated every time they lost the ball, and were extremely difficult to break down. When a team does that, it doesn't matter whether you're playing 3 or 4 at the back. You'll still end up laying siege to their penalty area. Build up and control was exceptional, although helped by Everton's retreat. Chance creation was not good. We ended up with 5 or 6 good opportunities, but 1st half was a bit bleak in terms of chance creation. Half chances and a pen.

 

[Phil1]

Obviously, but I don't think that adapting full backs into central defenders in a three is the best way to go, they need to be specialised already into that way of playing for me, and I'm unconvinced that it will work with/for Vinny, even if he stays fit, Stones suits it clearly, but at the moment I'd say he's 1 in 3, and whilst Kolarov started the season well he's not the answer. Fernandhino might fit, though we lose him from better positions, and he's a bit on the small size in an already small team.

As for everyone knowing their role yesterday, Kelechi looked lost for me.

Hey, I'm picking holes in things, but no matter how good some of the football was yesterday, we still only go 1 point, and we shouldn't be happy about that fact, imho.

Clichy had a very good game I thought. The goal will be held against him but tbh I thought Otamendi ball watching too high up and Stones committing were as culpable if not moreso. Though I take your point he's not ideally the man for that role.
As for Kelechi, I thought his main problem, and for me it has been for a while was his failure to hold onto the ball at important times and make the wrong pass at others. With us having so much of the ball he needs to make smarter runs and try and stretch the players marking him, he can be a bit static at times. I'm not sure if I'd class that as lost or not but his overall game (and he's got more than enough time on his hands) needs improving.

I walked away from the match fuming. About 20 minutes into the journey home I came to realise that was just one of those days and had we won the game it'd have been one of the most impressive 3 points I'd seen us collect in years..then I opened the post match thread on here..

 

[simon23]

Clichy gave Lukaku too much space. He was trying to shepherd him out wide without committing himself, but should have got a bit closer.

oh yeah i agree...but like billy also said, if he had got closer to him he would have been easily outmuscled probably......could have brought him down I suppose but then we are down to 10 men, possible penalty (dependent upon where the foul takes place)....

stones was also culpable for diving in around the half way line

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

Nowt wrong with the formation or the personnel. Another day we score the first penalty and win 3-0.

Agree that Stones and Otamendi were also at fault for Everton's goal, but Clichy's too left-footed to cover that situation. He could have taken one for the team on the half way line, but once he started retreating, I feared the worst.

 

[OB1]

Nowt wrong with the formation or the personnel. Another day we score the first penalty and win 3-0.

Agree that Stones and Otamendi were also at fault for Everton's goal, but Clichy's too left-footed to cover that situation. He could have taken one for the team on the half way line, but once he started retreating, I feared the worst.

Clichy is naturally right footed.

Otamendi was the major culprit. Kamara highlighted it very clearly on GoS; even Robbie Savage had spotted that.

Clichy should not have had to cover across in this instance.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Kolorov?
Just no

That was the general consensus among the cognoscenti in 323 yesterday. The majority heaved a sigh of relief that he wasn't starting. I like Kolarov. He's not the only one with weaknesses. He's one of those unfortunate players who make a mistake and it's a concession. Others make mistakes but get away with them. The 'mistake' that KDB and Sergio made from the spot was just as costly as the mistake that Clichy made. It's just that missing a goal never comes in for the same criticism as being majorly responsible for conceding one.

 

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

That was the general consensus among the cognoscenti in 323 yesterday. The majority heaved a sigh of relief that he wasn't starting. I like Kolarov. He's not the only one with weaknesses. He's one of those unfortunate players who make a mistake and it's a concession. Others make mistakes but get away with them. The 'mistake' that KDB and Sergio made from the spot was just as costly as the mistake that Clichy made. It's just that missing a goal never comes in for the same criticism as being majorly responsible for conceding one.

Sorry just not having that
If you went to Tottenham before the international break you will have witnessed one of the poorest games ever by a centre half,he was downright abysmal as he was for the majority of the last couple of seasons
Can't tackle,always the wrong side of the attacker,heading is poor and is probably the worst actual defender we've had at the club post michel vonk

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Sorry just not having that
If you went to Tottenham before the international break you will have witnessed one of the poorest games ever by a centre half,he was downright abysmal as he was for the majority of the last couple of seasons
Can't tackle,always the wrong side of the attacker,heading is poor and is probably the worst actual defender we've had at the club post michel vonk

Im sure Kit Symons is not a happy man at this moment in time, he earned the title of worst City defender ever and no one can take it away from him.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Sorry just not having that
If you went to Tottenham before the international break you will have witnessed one of the poorest games ever by a centre half,he was downright abysmal as he was for the majority of the last couple of seasons
Can't tackle,always the wrong side of the attacker,heading is poor and is probably the worst actual defender we've had at the club post michel vonk

Upto the Haringey game he was being hailed as the reincarnation of John Charles crossed with Franco Baresi! Is this the real Kolarov? was the plaintive cry from all corners. He has been reborn! And then he buggers up in one game and reverts to stereotype!!

 

[GSW Blue]

Im sure Kit Symons is not a happy man at this moment in time, he earned the title of worst City defender ever and no one can take it away from him.

Michael Frontzeck, Alan Kernaghan and Laurent Charvet all far worse than Kit Symons.

 

[schfc6]

Yeah defo, it's possible he gets tight and tries to show him on his right and he just gets shouldered off the ball anyway. Probably the one risk you have when you play a fly weight full back in a back three is that he gets isolated against a strong quick forward.

The problem was Clichy had to cover from the left, by the time he got across after Otamendi had gone walkabout.
By the time he'd got over, Lukaku had already turned and got going towards goal. He was the one in control not Clichy.
It's near impossible in that situation for a covering defender to influence the strikers path especially considering the physical disadvantage he had. Not to mention any found would have resulted in a red.

Clichy marked Lukaku all game pretty much and gave him nothing.
It was only when he(Lukaku) went wandering that he got any opportunity.

Regards topic, a back 3 will be used. But will not be a staple tactic.
As many have said, Pep will tailor his tactics to opposition.
If we did play 3 at the back, we'd need a true left sided centre half.
Until then, Clichy is far more reliable and consistent than Kolarov. But Kolarov is physically bigger and his passing is a very dangerous asset for a pep side.
Just friends which Kolarov turns up!!

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

No problem with the back 3, but we need better than Clichy in there.

Stones, Otamendi, Kompany, Kolarov and Sagna should be the options when playing a back 3. Clichy or Zabaleta not strong enough to play that role.

I thought it was Otamendi that let it down. His walkabout and poor distribution led to Bolasie and Lukaku
having all that space. Sure, don't think Stones should have dived in, too. But i think Clichy was least
culpable of the 3.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I thought it was Otamendi that let it down. His walkabout and poor distribution led to Bolasie and Lukaku
having all that space. Sure, don't think Stones should have dived in, too. But i think Clichy was least
culpable of the 3.

The defence is a problem. I am not convinced by Otamendi. He does some things well but his diving in, going awol and distribution are very hit and miss. We totally dominate a game yet they score a goal that once again was too easy. Spurs 2nd goal was too easy, West Ham's goal was too easy. Sunderlands goal was too easy and spurs first and uniteds was a gift. These are not well worked quality goals. They are all completely preventable.

if we can't keep clean sheets in a game we totally dominate from start to finish then there will be more games where we throw 2 points away or worse.

19/24 is excellent but it needs to get better in the next month because December is brutal month for us fixture wise.

Still 19/24 is excellent but then the chasing pack have also had very good starts too.

 

[blue62]

That was the general consensus among the cognoscenti in 323 yesterday. The majority heaved a sigh of relief that he wasn't starting. I like Kolarov. He's not the only one with weaknesses. He's one of those unfortunate players who make a mistake and it's a concession. Others make mistakes but get away with them. The 'mistake' that KDB and Sergio made from the spot was just as costly as the mistake that Clichy made. It's just that missing a goal never comes in for the same criticism as being majorly responsible for conceding one.

Good post that. Kolarov makes a mistake and is slaughtered on here. We all love Zabs but apparently he should never be picked because he's past it. In the meantime we have Clichy - apparently should be picked for his pace, Lukaku runs past like he's not even there. Similarly, Sagna can apparently do no wrong? Honestly the guy is bang average, been a downgrade since the day he arrived. None are the answer at full back, we need a new solution.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

I thought in the main the back 3 worked, especially having wingers rather than wing-backs pushing Evertons full backs back.

We made one defensive error and it was punished. Clichys "defending" for the goal was horrendous, he allowed Lukaku to do exactly what he wanted. Clichy should have engaged him as early, and as far away from goal as possible, instead he backed off. Once deciding not to tackle, he has to show him inside on to his right foot which Lukaku uses purely to stand on, not only does this push Lukaku on to his weaker side it also pushes him on to Clichys stronger left side but no he shows him on to the outside. Once he does this he has to slide in to try and block the shot, he stands up and does nothing. In fact if Clichy is removed from the equation Lukaku wouldnt do a single thing differently. You could have replaced Clichy with a traffic cone and we wouldnt have been any worse off, in fact Lukaku potentially might have accidentally run into the cone.