Mr Bates vs the Post Office

[dickie davies]

Pre horizon it was an average of 10 per year rising to an average of 80 per year post.
During the enquiry many people have been asked the question you pose, nobody has provided a convincing answer.

And the Post Office didn't keep accurate records on the numbers

 

[kaz7]

Well the biggest miscarriage of justice in this country didn't make the news today. Apparently we bombed some brown people and the Shining Knight is in Ukraine.
Nothing to see here, keep moving please.

Gmb had a post mistress who was convicted and the journo that exposed it on this morning , sky and itv have had multiple interviews every hour , wall to wall this week , there are other things on the news too

 

[sir baconface]

I'm currently listening to the BBC podcasts on the affair and one of the independent investigators said the same thing.

You have a level of fraud/theft which presumably is low, then introduce a new system which sees suspected theft/fraud reach a significantly higher level. You'd think someone might make the connection.

The podcast says that when the suspicion that Horizon WAS the problem finally dawned on the Post Office, instead of holding their hands up, they actually doubled down and started dragging their heels, witholding documents and generally reducing cooperation. Anyone who knowingly took part in that should be going to jail.

They've also effectively stolen money off those sub-postmasters who they forced to repay non-existent shortfalls. They're no better than scammers, who would certainly go to prison if caught and convicted.

Precisely. There must have come a point when everybody involved realised the strong possibility of system errors. And, from what I’ve seen, from then on there was a corporate policy to lie and disseminate. That not only makes senior PO management culpable but also their low-life jobsworths like that inspector giving evidence to yesterday’s inquiry. “Just following orders” is no excuse to wreck decent people’s lives, whatever your station in life.

 

[yerwot?]

I think in the defence of the public, most ordinary folk would probably expect the levers of justice to just sort of… work… when this stuff gets raised.

When I first heard about this quite a few years ago now, my immediate reaction was “well that sounds like it’s going to turn into an inquiry”. I didn’t for a second assume that the subpostmasters would be blocked, resisted and delayed for years. Naively you just expect governments and people in positions of trust to do the right thing without needing to be coerced. You think “surely it’s somebody’s job out there to sort this out”.

Because when it comes down to it, why does the public need to be involved at all? This is a problem relating to corporate governance and the legal system which is hundreds of years old. People expect checks and balances to be in place. It’s only when the lack thereof has been made incredibly apparent that the court of public opinion has now weighed in.

half the population believed that the press could be trusted, that being named and shamed and inevitably followed by sackings/prosecutions.... some still do, despite the very opposite being true. The mail/murdoch axis were given an open goal when the mirror was destroyed by maxwell, who "died" in mysterious circumstances, even more mysterious was mossad finding a body floating in shark-infested waters. Half the electorate are so disenfranchised by our politics they dont even bother to vote, safe seats and electoral boundaries shifted, videos of the commons resembling a playground have all played their part. Low voter turnout has kept the tories in power, the blatant voter-suppression that requires various proof of eligibility just further evidence of how desperately they depend on an anti-democratic fptp.

 

[sir baconface]

It's a win,win for the government. Fill the coffers of their bum chum mates in private companies and assassinate the Post Office thus pushing the so called positives for full privatisation.

Post Office = government owned.
Fujitsu = privately owned.

Please enlighten me. Which are you saying is the model of propriety?

And why, if I might trouble you a little further?

 

[blueste41]

I'm currently listening to the BBC podcasts on the affair and one of the independent investigators said the same thing.

You have a level of fraud/theft which presumably is low, then introduce a new system which sees suspected theft/fraud reach a significantly higher level. You'd think someone might make the connection.

The podcast says that when the suspicion that Horizon WAS the problem finally dawned on the Post Office, instead of holding their hands up, they actually doubled down and started dragging their heels, witholding documents and generally reducing cooperation. Anyone who knowingly took part in that should be going to jail.

They've also effectively stolen money off those sub-postmasters who they forced to repay non-existent shortfalls. They're no better than scammers, who would certainly go to prison if caught and convicted.

Precisely. There must have come a point when everybody involved realised the strong possibility of system errors. And, from what I’ve seen, from then on there was a corporate policy to lie and disseminate. That not only makes senior PO management culpable but also their low-life jobsworths like that inspector giving evidence to yesterday’s inquiry. “Just following orders” is no excuse to wreck decent people’s lives, whatever your station in life.

This document in particular proves what your saying. After the Seema Misra case (who refused to plead guilty to the lesser charge of false accounting but instead attempted to prove her innocence of theft charges by proving Horizon contained bugs, errors and defects) this email was circulated.

They are literally high fiving each other that they have prevented the truth from coming out in Crown Court.

I would add that three days before the trial started Jarnail Singh was forwarded an email from a member of the post office security team stating that ‘discrepancies’ with the Horizon IT system had been detected at 40 branches. This bug had caused an apparent loss of £20,000 to show up on the system.

 

[sir baconface]

The real life people say it was almost word for word so you are wrong again

As with “The Crown”, saying it’s not a documentary is simply to protect from libel prosecution IMO. Yes, some scenes will be re-imagined but we all know the basics are true to life.

 

[sir baconface]

I didn’t know anything about the bicycle thing but now you mention it I’ve not seen a postie on a bike for years!

What was the possible rationale behind that?!?

Bikes are cheap, reliable, zero emissions and are mostly immune to traffic. I can’t think of a single better vehicle for local posties to use for deliveries.

If I’m not mistaken, the bikes were requisitioned to be left outside chippies.

 

[MCFC Wirral]

Trying to get management to listen to staff in any organisation can be nigh on impossible.

 

[sir baconface]

Still their software in use, hopefully better used today.

It's a terrible story, the woman who gave up her CBE will be prosecuted, and fujitsu should be too.

It's a real shit show.

Should be prosecuted but not a chance. That’s not how the establishment looks after its own.

Some cnut thought fit to honour her, regardless of what was known at the time. And no cnut thought fit to oppose it.

:-(