National Anthem - 'Britain or England'?

[dom]

not really read it properly have you Dom?

Oh bugger...just Clarkied there, didn't I !!!
Sorry M8. ..!!

. will teach me not to try and work and BM at the same time...! LOL !

 

[Nreddishblue]

My take on this. I feel British rather than English. The whole St George's cross waving / talk about national anthems is, i feel, a relatively new thing which has only really picked up pace since Scottish and Welsh devolution. If you look at footage of the 1966 world cup final you will struggle to see a single St. Georges cross among all the Union Jack's. I certainly don't feel any different to those from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and regularly visit these places.

I think outside of sport it is entirely right that we don't go down the route of trying to re-enforce separate national identities by scrapping the British national anthem and bringing in an English national anthem. Sport is a different matter as the team is solely representing England and there is therefore a case for having an anthem solely for England. In fact, i'd like to see a United British team for football and other sports but that's a different matter entirely.

I feel the same. When the different F.A.'s in the home nations were installed, football wasn't as massive as it is now. Having a British team would help unite the country more, it would do the Union the world of good.

 

[Gosford Blue]

With these lyrics how can you go wrong?
Reference to Jerusalem is analytical.

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green
And was the holy lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen

And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark Satanic mills

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire

I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land
'Til we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land

 

[wearethesouthstand]

I see myself as Scottish & British, and personally I think England should have their own anthem and GSTQ should be kept for events where it is Britain that is being represented.

As for what some people are saying about nationalism, I think there is a difference between rivalry & nationalism.

I in no way "hate" or dislike the English & have many friends & family that are English, and obviously also support an English team. However, as far as "England" as a sporting entity are concerned, I want them to lose every game, and really hope they don't win the World Cup.

This is purely down to sporting rivalry in the same way that I would never want MUFC to win anything.

HELLO GLASGOW/MAN CITY... i don't know you personally but I had a beer with you up ashton lane before the rangers pre-season game so I know you are a scot supporting an english football team ... I agree with you on one point that England should have its own anthem and GSTQ should be the UK/GB/special offical occasion anthem, I sing GSTQ lustily at England games but I would still prefer to sing There'll Always Be An England or Land Of Hope And Glory...

However you have said you are scottish AND british. Being British is about having a joint unity , a joint respect for the 4 home nations as we have all stood together and fought together. You say it's about rivalry not nationalism but have you lot up there forgotten what it mans to be British. The Scots have done great out of the british empire and any imperialism (of which there has been much in the name of our queen) in the last 300 years has also been done by scottish troops.

They buy t-shirts with ABE (anyone but england) on ... tell me how many scots have been killed by english people in the last few decades ? then compare to how many scots have been killed by the irish, the germans, the japanese, the argies... need I go on, yet for some reason, even though you say you are happy to be british you would rather no doubt shout for ireland, german, japan, argentina over england, which is pathetic because if that's a snapshot of public opinion and the pysche over the average scotsman then you've got a long way to go before you lot are mature enough to be an independent nation on your own...

also its questionable whether we are rivals.. the act of union 1707 makes us all brits so we should cheer our own 4 home nations, geographically england borders scotland so we could be geographical rivals but the home nations championship doesn't exist anymore and scotland don't qualify for any major tournaments so we don't play you often enough to have a rivalry with you surely ? england's rivals are brazil, germany, italy, argentina etc... countries where we all feel we have a good chance of actually winning a major tournament

back in 1978 you say "england cannae win it cos they didnt qualify" - we could put the fact that scotland never qualify for anything any more in our songs but then... think we're a bit more mature down here

on a happier note though i have all the england flags out on my house and am looking forward to the rest of my street following suit.

COME ON ENGLAND

 

[Glasgow Man City]

I see myself as Scottish & British, and personally I think England should have their own anthem and GSTQ should be kept for events where it is Britain that is being represented.

As for what some people are saying about nationalism, I think there is a difference between rivalry & nationalism.

I in no way "hate" or dislike the English & have many friends & family that are English, and obviously also support an English team. However, as far as "England" as a sporting entity are concerned, I want them to lose every game, and really hope they don't win the World Cup.

This is purely down to sporting rivalry in the same way that I would never want MUFC to win anything.

HELLO GLASGOW/MAN CITY... i don't know you personally but I had a beer with you up ashton lane before the rangers pre-season game so I know you are a scot supporting an english football team ... I agree with you on one point that England should have its own anthem and GSTQ should be the UK/GB/special offical occasion anthem, I sing GSTQ lustily at England games but I would still prefer to sing There'll Always Be An England or Land Of Hope And Glory...

However you have said you are scottish AND british. Being British is about having a joint unity , a joint respect for the 4 home nations as we have all stood together and fought together. You say it's about rivalry not nationalism but have you lot up there forgotten what it mans to be British. The Scots have done great out of the british empire and any imperialism (of which there has been much in the name of our queen) in the last 300 years has also been done by scottish troops.

They buy t-shirts with ABE (anyone but england) on ... tell me how many scots have been killed by english people in the last few decades ? then compare to how many scots have been killed by the irish, the germans, the japanese, the argies... need I go on, yet for some reason, even though you say you are happy to be british you would rather no doubt shout for ireland, german, japan, argentina over england, which is pathetic because if that's a snapshot of public opinion and the pysche over the average scotsman then you've got a long way to go before you lot are mature enough to be an independent nation on your own...

also its questionable whether we are rivals.. the act of union 1707 makes us all brits so we should cheer our own 4 home nations, geographically england borders scotland so we could be geographical rivals but the home nations championship doesn't exist anymore and scotland don't qualify for any major tournaments so we don't play you often enough to have a rivalry with you surely ? england's rivals are brazil, germany, italy, argentina etc... countries where we all feel we have a good chance of actually winning a major tournament

back in 1978 you say "england cannae win it cos they didnt qualify" - we could put the fact that scotland never qualify for anything any more in our songs but then... think we're a bit more mature down here

on a happier note though i have all the england flags out on my house and am looking forward to the rest of my street following suit.

COME ON ENGLAND

Hi again mate,

As I said - I see it as rivalry, OK historical rivalry but rivalry all the same, as I still saw United as our rivals when we were in division 2 as I'm sure you did yourself.

As for the ABE t-shirts, I see them as just a laugh.

As for Scots being killed by other nationalities - I'm sure you're right & if we were talking about war, then I would be standing side by side with the other home nations - metaphorically, not litterally as I'm a big wimp ;-), but in sport it's rivalry.

As for being more mature - how many times do you hear England fans singing "Are you Scotland in disguise"?

I am Scottish & British and proud to be both.

 

[BurnCK]

Patriotism, Nationalism, Racism, Ethnocentrism....they're all the same thing in one way or another.
They just make people believe that they are in someway better than another human being...usually without any justifiable reasoning.

Yeah I support my country in sport...I'd even fight for my country...but I'd do it to protect our way of life, not for some flag.
I personally couldn't care less if they played 'Fog on the Tyne' as our national anthem.

 

[Balti]

Patriotism, Nationalism, Racism, Ethnocentrism....they're all the same thing in one way or another.
They just make people believe that they are in someway better than another human being...usually without any justifiable reasoning.

Yeah I support my country in sport...I'd even fight for my country...but I'd do it to protect our way of life, not for some flag.
I personally couldn't care less if they played 'Fog on the Tyne' as our national anthem.

Gazzer's version presumably?

 

[Bill Walker]

Patriotism, Nationalism, Racism, Ethnocentrism....they're all the same thing in one way or another.
They just make people believe that they are in someway better than another human being...usually without any justifiable reasoning.

Yeah I support my country in sport...I'd even fight for my country...but I'd do it to protect our way of life, not for some flag.
I personally couldn't care less if they played 'Fog on the Tyne' as our national anthem.

best post yet IMO (except the Vindaloo one)

 

[bluejean1]

Personally I would prefer "Land of Hope and glory" and just hope that if they ever do adopt that as Englands anthem the players would try and learn the words. Watching Englands team singing "God save the Queen" is awful 'cos most of the team either don't sing or don't know the words. "Jerusalem2 is a great song but we couldn't have that as the national anthem as the Womens Institute adopted that as their anthem many years ago, so it would look pretty stupid.

 

[Anonymous]

If our anthem was Jeruselum then i'd probably be alot more patriotic to the national side.