NATO a mercainery force

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Glad you mentioned Ireland - same country who wouldn't let us base planes on the west coast that could have saved thousands of seamen from the Wolf packs. Regardless of the motive, the Yanks, Canadians, NZ, Oz and others who crushed the Third Reich are our allies, and I'll back them the way they backed us then and since.

Are you seriously saying that when it comes to immensely, deadly serious issues like war, death and humanitarianism your view is (largely, at least) based not on what is 'right' but on some sort of playground "well, he stuck up for me once" moral code?

That's how diplomacy works JMA.

It might work for that when morally bankrupt governments trade people's lives for commodities or dubious motives.

But what part of that would make an individual think it is 'right'.

Also, it isn't as simple as that in reality, otherwise we would still be opposing anything with a slightly Roman air about it.

There are numerous examples of goverments not taking that attitude and opposing their 'allies' because they believe something to be wrong (or if you are more cynical, because they believe it isn't in their own self interest).

 

[tueartsboots]

Are you seriously saying that when it comes to immensely, deadly serious issues like war, death and humanitarianism your view is (largely, at least) based not on what is 'right' but on some sort of playground "well, he stuck up for me once" moral code?

That's how diplomacy works JMA.

It might work for that when morally bankrupt governments trade people's lives for commodities or dubious motives.

But what part of that would make an individual think it is 'right'.

Also, it isn't as simple as that in reality, otherwise we would still be opposing anything with a slightly Roman air about it.

There are numerous examples of goverments not taking that attitude and opposing their 'allies' because they believe something to be wrong (or if you are more cynical, because they believe it isn't in their own self interest).

It is about self interest. Your analogy of playground attitudes is pretty much spot on " you're my friend" this week but next week you're not.
we, the normal man on the street, have a higher moral code than politicians/civil servants.
There may be unofficial "We don't agree with this" but at the end of the day a country like the US will say something along the lines of "You know that contract we placed with BAE, well, hmmm, maybe" UK Gov-" of course we were just airing an opinion, not saying you are wrong and of course we will back you"
Look at the Serious Fraud Office investigation into Saudi Arabian "negotiations", as soon as they raised doubts on whether they were legal or not Saudis threatened to pull the contract and UK PLC told SFO to fuck right off.
World is corrupt and it's minions like you and me that get bent over and fucked royally.

 

[scall11]

I'm suprised it's taken so long for this to happen, but I think what's happened in the Middle East this year was the catalyst that set this thing in Libya in motion.

Under the guise of a rebellious uprising, NATO countries (probably others too outside the scope of NATO) have bombed and encouraged this uprising. The observers today said the storming of Gadaffi's compound was "obviously" a special forces operation. One commentator on the BBC was saying it was obvious looking at some of the participants that these were non-Libyans. Basically, CIA, MI6, French intelligence are on the ground in Tripoli now organsing, advising and planning the rebels. It'll be all Libyan's doing the shooting and setting off explosions, but it's only after a NATO-based intelligence officer has told them what to do and when.

It's the cleanest way of dealing with Gadaffi. He fed the IRA weapons and bombs, he's supported terrorism (Terrorism International in the 80's), he's been a thorn in the side of 'the west' for decades, and we're using this chance to get rid of him. No military invasion by NATO, just a nice simple uprising that intelligence organisations have done for decades and decades. We just jumped on the opportunities presented by various legitimate uprising in places like Egypt.

The fact that there's billions of pounds worth of oil in Libya is also a nice little sweetner to the operation.

Some would say it's not fair, and NATO are operating outside of the realm of the UN laws, but it's what countries have done for decades and will continue to do in the future.

NATO defeated the major threat in the latter quater of the 20th Century (Soviet Union), and now it is setting it's sights on the Middle East. A very, very dangerous and long objective, but it's underway.

On the front of it, reigimes like Egypt and the new Lybia will seem like domestic democracies, but look at all the countries offering aid to these new countries. They're not doing it for no reason, they're doing it so they'll have influence when it calms down.

Interesting times.

 

[tueartsboots]

I'm suprised it's taken so long for this to happen, but I think what's happened in the Middle East this year was the catalyst that set this thing in Libya in motion.

Under the guise of a rebellious uprising, NATO countries (probably others too outside the scope of NATO) have bombed and encouraged this uprising. The observers today said the storming of Gadaffi's compound was "obviously" a special forces operation. One commentator on the BBC was saying it was obvious looking at some of the participants that these were non-Libyans. Basically, CIA, MI6, French intelligence are on the ground in Tripoli now organsing, advising and planning the rebels. It'll be all Libyan's doing the shooting and setting off explosions, but it's only after a NATO-based intelligence officer has told them what to do and when.

It's the cleanest way of dealing with Gadaffi. He fed the IRA weapons and bombs, he's supported terrorism (Terrorism International in the 80's), he's been a thorn in the side of 'the west' for decades, and we're using this chance to get rid of him. No military invasion by NATO, just a nice simple uprising that intelligence organisations have done for decades and decades. We just jumped on the opportunities presented by various legitimate uprising in places like Egypt.

The fact that there's billions of pounds worth of oil in Libya is also a nice little sweetner to the operation.

Some would say it's not fair, and NATO are operating outside of the realm of the UN laws, but it's what countries have done for decades and will continue to do in the future.

NATO defeated the major threat in the latter quater of the 20th Century (Soviet Union), and now it is setting it's sights on the Middle East. A very, very dangerous and long objective, but it's underway.

On the front of it, reigimes like Egypt and the new Lybia will seem like domestic democracies, but look at all the countries offering aid to these new countries. They're not doing it for no reason, they're doing it so they'll have influence when it calms down.

Interesting times.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/sc10200.doc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/sc10200.doc.htm</a>

 

[cyberblue]

Well the thread certainly shifted direction but was has not been adressed is what happens to all the other Dictators we dont like & who have also sponsered terroisim & also why after "defending civilians" nato then bombs the fu*k out of the rest of the country .Dont forget up untill a few months ago Gaddafi was the wests new best mate .The "Oposition" to Gadaffi is made up of a right motley crew & dont be suprised if like Afaganistan ,Iraq.ect it all goes tits up.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

If in doubt about a country murdering its own people blame oil!!

 

[kinkysleftfoot]

But this is the same bloke shaking hands with the worlds leaders in recent including ex Prime Minister Tony Blair years so they can get there hands on Lybia"s oil .if the world leaders were concerned about the Lockerbie bombing (or if they really thought he was behind it) they could have attacke dhim then

The US bombed Tripoli in 1986 <a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/15/newsid_3975000/3975455.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 975455.stm</a>

In 1988 Pan Am plane was blown up
<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/21/newsid_2539000/2539447.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 539447.stm</a>

Makes you think who should be classed as the terrorist.

Why did the USA bomb Libya in 1986?

I remember this well

The yanks planes took off from the airbase at Akrotiri in Cyprus and in reprisal some Arab types attacked the base, I remember being sat in the garden having lunch when mortar bombs started landing around the place...........nearly choked on me spuds!! They also machine gunned and rocket attacked the families beach, tough guys huh!

 

[tueartsboots]

The US bombed Tripoli in 1986 <a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/15/newsid_3975000/3975455.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 975455.stm</a>

In 1988 Pan Am plane was blown up
<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/21/newsid_2539000/2539447.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 539447.stm</a>

Makes you think who should be classed as the terrorist.

Why did the USA bomb Libya in 1986?

I remember this well

The yanks planes took off from the airbase at Akrotiri in Cyprus and in reprisal some Arab types attacked the base, I remember being sat in the garden having lunch when mortar bombs started landing around the place...........nearly choked on me spuds!! They also machine gunned and rocket attacked the families beach, tough guys huh!

You must have been crouched in one hell of a position to choke on your own spuds ;)

 

[malg]

The US bombed Tripoli in 1986 <a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/15/newsid_3975000/3975455.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 975455.stm</a>

In 1988 Pan Am plane was blown up
<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/21/newsid_2539000/2539447.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 539447.stm</a>

Makes you think who should be classed as the terrorist.

Why did the USA bomb Libya in 1986?

I remember this well

The yanks planes took off from the airbase at Akrotiri in Cyprus and in reprisal some Arab types attacked the base, I remember being sat in the garden having lunch when mortar bombs started landing around the place...........nearly choked on me spuds!! They also machine gunned and rocket attacked the families beach, tough guys huh!

They attacked the families beach! Fucking lucky the Black Watch weren't there at the time.....now there's a bunch of wives I certainly would not want to piss off!

 

[mancitymick]

Why did the USA bomb Libya in 1986?

I remember this well

The yanks planes took off from the airbase at Akrotiri in Cyprus and in reprisal some Arab types attacked the base, I remember being sat in the garden having lunch when mortar bombs started landing around the place...........nearly choked on me spuds!! They also machine gunned and rocket attacked the families beach, tough guys huh!

They attacked the families beach! Fucking lucky the Black Watch weren't there at the time.....now there's a bunch of wives I certainly would not want to piss off!

True pal, hard as nails