NATO

[Magicpole]

Absolutely insane talk mate tbh. Listen to people who actually grew up under the control of the Soviet Union. An absolutely horrendous regime. Imagine winning the war and then allowing Stalin's armies into your country.

I agree with the sentiment, but if Trump is in Putin’s pocket, as he clearly is, repeating Russian lies and claiming Ukraine started the war, puts the rest of NATO in a position of being betrayed by the US. From his first tenure he talked down NATO, at Putin’s behest. His plans to turn Gaza into a Maralago on the Med, also put us at odds with that insanity.

If you have an enemy within the alliance, how can we tolerate that? The damage Trump the Moronic **** has already caused and will continue to do so, will see NATO as is, as obsolete. He isn’t even in situ for two months and already the world is a more dangerous place because he is siding with the guy who has something on him. 80 years of a united front against Russian aggression, undone by a dangerous, unhinged, narcissistic moron.

It’s going to be an interesting four years with that imbecilic twat at the helm. Fuck the US up, fill your boots, but it affects every aspect of everyone’s else’s situation. Europe needs to grow a pair. Russia has fought for three years and still can’t defeat Ukraine. Having to take on the rest of Europe is madness. Putin needs to know that any other expansionist plans can be checked with or without the US and the manchild they have voted in to fuck up the world.

 

[Djibrilshairdo]

Government to up defence spending to 2.5% of by 2027.

 

[Blue Maverick]

I agree with the sentiment, but if Trump is in Putin’s pocket, as he clearly is, repeating Russian lies and claiming Ukraine started the war, puts the rest of NATO in a position of being betrayed by the US. From his first tenure he talked down NATO, at Putin’s behest. His plans to turn Gaza into a Maralago on the Med, also put us at odds with that insanity.

If you have an enemy within the alliance, how can we tolerate that? The damage Trump the Moronic **** has already caused and will continue to do so, will see NATO as is, as obsolete. He isn’t even in situ for two months and already the world is a more dangerous place because he is siding with the guy who has something on him. 80 years of a united front against Russian aggression, undone by a dangerous, unhinged, narcissistic moron.

It’s going to be an interesting four years with that imbecilic twat at the helm. Fuck the US up, fill your boots, but it affects every aspect of everyone’s else’s situation. Europe needs to grow a pair. Russia has fought for three years and still can’t defeat Ukraine. Having to take on the rest of Europe is madness. Putin needs to know that any other expansionist plans can be checked with or without the US and the manchild they have voted in to fuck up the world.

I agree and make it quite clear to the USA they are on their own now, you want to fight with China fill your boots nothing to do with us.

 

[Rascal]

We haven’t had US nuclear weapons here for a while I thought?

On 16 January 2025, Jill Hruby of the US National Nuclear Security Administration stated that “[t]he new B61-12 gravity bombs are fully forward deployed…” These bombs, which are three times more destructive than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima in 1945, are reportedly now being stationed at NATO bases across Western Europe, including potentially RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk.

US budget documents show that the base’s weapons storage silos are being upgraded to store the new B61-12 guided nuclear bomb, and new dormitory buildings are being built to house additional military personnel needed for any potential nuclear weapons mission. Washington also intends to double the amount of nuclear-capable F-35 aircraft it has stationed at Lakenheath to 54 – the first phase of upgrade works for this purpose has been completed.

The deployment of these bombs in Britain makes us a target in any potential nuclear conflict. CND has already written to the Prime Minister asking for him to make a statement. Despite this, the government refuses to come clean about the deployments. That’s why we need you to get involved with the campaign. CND supporters have repeatedly protested at RAF Lakenheath and across the country since we first heard the news and we are also legally challenging developments at the base.

 

[inbetween]

I agree with the sentiment, but if Trump is in Putin’s pocket, as he clearly is, repeating Russian lies and claiming Ukraine started the war, puts the rest of NATO in a position of being betrayed by the US. From his first tenure he talked down NATO, at Putin’s behest. His plans to turn Gaza into a Maralago on the Med, also put us at odds with that insanity.

If you have an enemy within the alliance, how can we tolerate that? The damage Trump the Moronic **** has already caused and will continue to do so, will see NATO as is, as obsolete. He isn’t even in situ for two months and already the world is a more dangerous place because he is siding with the guy who has something on him. 80 years of a united front against Russian aggression, undone by a dangerous, unhinged, narcissistic moron.

It’s going to be an interesting four years with that imbecilic twat at the helm. Fuck the US up, fill your boots, but it affects every aspect of everyone’s else’s situation. Europe needs to grow a pair. Russia has fought for three years and still can’t defeat Ukraine. Having to take on the rest of Europe is madness. Putin needs to know that any other expansionist plans can be checked with or without the US and the manchild they have voted in to fuck up the world.

We have to be extremely careful here and not just use the position of Trump as the position of the US, especially when it comes to NATO policy. Trump is a politician but ultimately the courts and military branches are something else. Trump is not a dictator and when you mess with these things harshly your shelf life starts to become limited.

The way it's going I can see this precipitating down to every single institution who eventually who will begin to obstruct and refuse to act. Much of it depends upon how the GOP react over the coming year however this is likely to only turn bad which is why Trump has surrounded himself by MAGA loyalists and not party people.

Something will give eventually, even the Musk relationship will give way eventually because as much as Musk is trying to move away from legacy media Trump is still obsessed with polling and press. Trump can lie about that press but this is where his loyalists will peel away. This is even more relevant given around 50% of the electorate rejected Trump so his mandate isn't simple. You only have to ask why the vast majority of his previous administration are now opposing him, it's only going to end in tears.

As for NATO and Europe, the only thing to do is watch and wait until the US returns to the fold. Does this somehow point to the dissolution of NATO in favour of something else? I don't understand that argument at all, we can only at best replace something that we already have with something that we already have.

 

[mosssideblue]

We have to be extremely careful here and not just use the position of Trump as the position of the US, especially when it comes to NATO policy. Trump is a politician but ultimately the courts and military branches are something else. Trump is not a dictator and when you mess with these things harshly your shelf life starts to become limited.

The way it's going I can see this precipitating down to every single institution who eventually who will begin to obstruct and refuse to act. Much of it depends upon how the GOP react over the coming year however this is likely to only turn bad which is why Trump has surrounded himself by MAGA loyalists and not party people.

Something will give eventually, even the Musk relationship will give way eventually because as much as Musk is trying to move away from legacy media Trump is still obsessed with polling and press. Trump can lie about that press but this is where his loyalists will peel away. This is even more relevant given around 50% of the electorate rejected Trump so his mandate isn't simple. You only have to ask why the vast majority of his previous administration are now opposing him, it's only going to end in tears.

As for NATO and Europe, the only thing to do is watch and wait until the US returns to the fold. Does this somehow point to the dissolution of NATO in favour of something else? I don't understand that argument at all, we can only at best replace something that we already have with something that we already have.

Not sure about those

 

[inbetween]

Not sure about those

Trump is not a dictator as much as he may speak like one. He can pass executive orders but they're subjected to laws made by congress and tests versus the constitution so they can be overruled/overturned. If he loses congress next year (which is the natural order of things) then his administration is made null and void.

He can only be called a dictator if he tried to change the constitution to remove the need for the above but I can't see that happening as it would require GOP support and there would probably be a civil war.

 

[Protein Junkie]

It can never happen now of course, but I’ve always maintained that this country missed a very big trick in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War. We should have extended the hand of friendship to our Soviet brothers who gave tens of millions of lives to save us from fascism. Invited the Soviets to build air and naval bases in this country instead of, or maybe even alongside, the Yanks. We could have made this country a true bridge between east and west but instead we leapt into bed with the Americans and prostituted ourselves before them, willingly.

I respectfully disagree Kazzy.
The Soviet’s were our enemies enemy. They were not on side initially in WW2 iirc.
Their whole mindset has been generally radically different to the West for hundreds of years.
Absence of enforcement of Laws, autocracy and distrust have reigned.
Many times the green shoots of democracy have been trampled on.
Just my opinion.

 

[blueish swede]

As an aside, General Patton was the first person to mount a machine gun on a vehicle.

 

[meltonblue]

On 16 January 2025, Jill Hruby of the US National Nuclear Security Administration stated that “[t]he new B61-12 gravity bombs are fully forward deployed…” These bombs, which are three times more destructive than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima in 1945, are reportedly now being stationed at NATO bases across Western Europe, including potentially RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk.

US budget documents show that the base’s weapons storage silos are being upgraded to store the new B61-12 guided nuclear bomb, and new dormitory buildings are being built to house additional military personnel needed for any potential nuclear weapons mission. Washington also intends to double the amount of nuclear-capable F-35 aircraft it has stationed at Lakenheath to 54 – the first phase of upgrade works for this purpose has been completed.

The deployment of these bombs in Britain makes us a target in any potential nuclear conflict. CND has already written to the Prime Minister asking for him to make a statement. Despite this, the government refuses to come clean about the deployments. That’s why we need you to get involved with the campaign. CND supporters have repeatedly protested at RAF Lakenheath and across the country since we first heard the news and we are also legally challenging developments at the base.

Yes I read they were developing the base, I didn’t think there were any nuclear weapons there yet though and given how different the US regime is now, I wasn’t sure it would actually happen now.

We had US nuclear weapons here previously for a long while.

 

[moomba]

Can't trust the yanks. Even when Trump goes, there's a load of arselickers who will replace him and a load of voters who will vote for an arselicker.

They might earn that trust back one day but for now, they're no ally.

 

[inbetween]

On 16 January 2025, Jill Hruby of the US National Nuclear Security Administration stated that “[t]he new B61-12 gravity bombs are fully forward deployed…” These bombs, which are three times more destructive than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima in 1945, are reportedly now being stationed at NATO bases across Western Europe, including potentially RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk.

US budget documents show that the base’s weapons storage silos are being upgraded to store the new B61-12 guided nuclear bomb, and new dormitory buildings are being built to house additional military personnel needed for any potential nuclear weapons mission. Washington also intends to double the amount of nuclear-capable F-35 aircraft it has stationed at Lakenheath to 54 – the first phase of upgrade works for this purpose has been completed.

The deployment of these bombs in Britain makes us a target in any potential nuclear conflict. CND has already written to the Prime Minister asking for him to make a statement. Despite this, the government refuses to come clean about the deployments. That’s why we need you to get involved with the campaign. CND supporters have repeatedly protested at RAF Lakenheath and across the country since we first heard the news and we are also legally challenging developments at the base.

The UK already has nuclear weapons stationed at Faslane although they exist to be loaded onto submarines and can't be launched from here. So we're already a target anyway.

The nukes nowadays have MIRV warheads where either way Russia could wipe out every single UK city and military site with just a handful of ballistic missiles. At recent official counts Russia has over 5,000 of them...

So basically if the worst happens then it really doesn't matter because we're all dead.

 

[mosssideblue]

The UK already has nuclear weapons stationed at Faslane although they exist to be loaded onto submarines and can't be launched from here. So we're already a target anyway.

The nukes nowadays have MIRV warheads where either way Russia could wipe out every single UK city and military site with just a handful of ballistic missiles. At recent official counts Russia has over 5,000 of them...

So basically if the worst happens then it really doesn't matter because we're all dead.

Our primary nuclear deterrent is not alongside the jetty at Faslane but at sea.

Why couldn't they be launched from here?

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Our primary nuclear deterrent is not alongside the jetty at Faslane but at sea.

Why couldn't they be launched from here?

The UK are highly unlikely to be a first-strike option. More likely a retaliatory strike, which is pretty much impossible from land when all your military bases and CNI are top of the list of targets.

This is why our missiles are submarine based - They are mobile, easy to hide and relatively well insulated from sabotage and cyber-attack.

 

[tregyblue61]

It needs a name change.

We could always go back to the Western Union (Alliance).

Western Union (alliance) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Magicpole]

As an aside, General Patton was the first person to mount a machine gun on a vehicle.

Eh, no.

According to available information, F.R. Simms is credited as the first person to mount a machine gun on a vehicle, specifically a De Dion-Bouton quadricycle, which he equipped with a Maxim machine gun around 1898 in England; this vehicle was called the "Motor Scout".

Key points about this early mounted machine gun:

• Vehicle: A De Dion-Bouton quadricycle
• Machine gun: A Maxim machine gun
• Inventor: F.R. Simms
  

 

[mosssideblue]

The UK are highly unlikely to be a first-strike option. More likely a retaliatory strike, which is pretty much impossible from land when all your military bases and CNI are top of the list of targets.

This is why our missiles are submarine based - They are mobile, easy to hide and relatively well insulated from sabotage and cyber-attack.

All that is correct, but was asking the poster why they couldn’t be fired from “here” assuming he meant Faslane or even, Coulport.

 

[Magicpole]

The UK already has nuclear weapons stationed at Faslane although they exist to be loaded onto submarines and can't be launched from here. So we're already a target anyway.

The nukes nowadays have MIRV warheads where either way Russia could wipe out every single UK city and military site with just a handful of ballistic missiles. At recent official counts Russia has over 5,000 of them...

So basically if the worst happens then it really doesn't matter because we're all dead.

Especially us doss cunts. Taking the knee and getting the country’s nuclear arsenal stuck up our Faslane arse in return. I don’t blame anybody but our fucking penchant to grovel. Brainwashed into believing they care, when they don’t give a single fuck about them.

But, Trump? Swine.

 

[mosssideblue]

The UK already has nuclear weapons stationed at Faslane although they exist to be loaded onto submarines and can't be launched from here. So we're already a target anyway.

The nukes nowadays have MIRV warheads where either way Russia could wipe out every single UK city and military site with just a handful of ballistic missiles. At recent official counts Russia has over 5,000 of them...

So basically if the worst happens then it really doesn't matter because we're all dead.

It’s not how many you have but how many can you launch before being taken out

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

All that is correct, but was asking the poster why they couldn’t be fired from “here” assuming he meant Faslane or even, Coulport.

The 'order' to fire can be remote but the fire 'command' has to be initiated at the weapon system for the reasons I outlined.

Any remote firing system would be open to cyber attack, sabotage or technical failure.