NDJ Holland

[hmmm23]

i cant believe that between the two of you, you are suggesting that LOTHAR MATTHAUS, DIDIER DESCHAMPS, ANDREA PIRLO, MICHEAL CARRICK, JAVIER MASCHERANO, PATRICK VIEIRA AND DIDI HAMMAN are 'not supposed to pass forward'

the fact you have even mentioned pirlo here shows a huge lack of understanding, he is a deep lying play maker more than a defensive midfielder, it is his job to play forward, at least with the others it is just part of their jobs...

Ive not said once that any of them are "not supposed to pass forwards", not once - just like De Jong doesnt only pass backwards or sideways! It goes with the quality of the players who play around the player in the defensive midfield position, if the DM has poor players around him or attacking players who are too far away from him or another DM instead of a central midfielder; he will then pass backwards or sideways because his team will at least keep the ball! But if, like last night where Van der Vaart dropped back two yards from the England midfielders on a number of occasions and De Jong passed him the ball FORWARDS and started a Holland period of play in England's half and the fact De Jong will have Barry instead of a more defensive minded Kompany in midfield with him this season then the DM will look a better player! But really its not that the DM is any better than he was when he had non-suitable players around him its that he has better players or more suitable players around him to suit his game!

and i find that you have a lack of understanding that you think it would be better for the DM to pass forwards even if that option is the wrong one, when a sideways or backwards pass may well be the better option! Footy scorelines dont finish 9-5 do they? so that suggests that footy is a game that needs patience and not to make rash decisions for trying to be too positive and get the ball forwards on every opportunity! Thats where De Jong has been brought up to make sure his team keeps the ball at all costs, not matter which way he passes the ball, because eventually the right pass forwards will be on and that he should take it at that right time!

read the first line of the post that i quoted you quoting....

also highlight where i said that a DM should ONLY pass forward or where i said they should pass forward if a sideways or backwards pass is the better option.....

 

[Ntini77]

Who said he was shit ?

A few posters on the forum have said De Jong is shit, not in this thread but in other threads. I replied in my post in general as some people on here are saying he only passes side to side, he isn't a very adventurous passer, he hasn't bossed 1 game etc. It wasn't at 1 particular person

Fair enough, hopefully he proves me wrong.

 

[samharris]

NDJ played well but the commentator peed me off kept refering to him as de (young) or is that how its pronounced??

 

[sam the drummer]

NDJ played well but the commentator peed me off kept refering to him as de (young) or is that how its pronounced??

Kept saying De JUNG, wanted to punch him badly.

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

Quality player who will be integral, however I agree with JohnMaddoxAxe that his distribution needs to be a bit more varied and he could speed things up a bit sometimes.

The poster's saying mascherano,Pirlo and Carrick(especially the last two) don't pass forwards are watching different football to me as I've seen them set up many goals or opportunities from their deep positions.

 

[johnny crossan]

People who say NDJ is shit need to understand the defensive midfielder role. Alot of what he does goes unnoticed unless you watch the games home and away. He is there purely to break up opposition play and put his foot in when needed. People who say he passes side to side and doesn't spray a 30 yard pass to Robi's/Ireland's feet need to understand the meaning of retaining possession. The amount of times Kompany tried this last season and failed was unbelievable and 1 of my biggest frustrations with him. NDJ knows that retaining possession is more important than trying to find a killer pass, its all part of the build up play starting from the defensive midfielder. He may not be the type of passer everybody wants to see but he does his job extremely well. I'd rather have NDJ pass 3 yards either side of him to Barry/Ireland than him try to put it on a 5pence behind the opposition back 4. He is extremely clever at reading play and has made numerous interceptions that would have lead to goal scoring opportunities last season and for that i think he is worth every penny we paid for him

An good example of this was Darren Fletcher on Superman last season. He just sat and blocked the middle of the pitch and Stevie never got into the game - and neither did we.

 

[BlueMoon93]

NDJ played well but the commentator peed me off kept refering to him as de (young) or is that how its pronounced??

That is how it is actually pronounced in Dutch. His name translated would be 'Nigel of young'. Still sound like a bit of a twat calling him that instead of De Jong though lol.

 

[Luke The Blue]

he was quality

 

[stumpy_mcfc]

I'll give you a controversial opinion about De Jong.

Over the past ten years the 'holding' midfielder has gone from being a clogger with no skill to an important position in a lot of teams.

As it has got more and more coverage and players playing there have got more and more praise, every man and has dog has suddenly jumped on the bandwagon.

You have now got people who see or hear that a player is playing that role and, because they have heard that the way to play the role is 'simple' in manner, they are willing to crack one offf, as someone above puts it, as distinctly average displays in that role.

The most celebrated person in that role over the past few years was Makelele and, despite the reputation of doing nothing but tackle and pass it 3 yards, he was actually very good at spotting a forward pass (not the Beckham esque hoof, but the intricate, break building slide pass forward to another midfielder in the main) and was hugely influencial in attack (by starting them flowing) and obviously defence. He also, due to his ability on the ball, had a huge influence over the tempo of the game and ensuring that Chelsea probed with possession and moved the ball quickly around the pitch to probe different areas.

Hammann, when he was outstanding under Sven for 8 months, played the same role. If anything his strength was even more exagerated when it came to dictating the tempo of the game and using the ball with huge intelligence to set up attacks, punish opposition midfielders when they were out of position with clever balls exploiting it and retaining possession in ridiculously tight situations. Obviously his chasing skills weren't up to the likes of Makelele though.

Mascherano, Hargreaves and others all have a huge influence over the game from that position too.

Now, De Jong, for my money, either whilst he has been here or last night, has nowhere near the amount of influence on a game that any of the above have.

I hear people banging on about how he put some tackles in in a game or how he ran a midfield but for me it's just doing the basics, albeit maybe well, of the role and people wetting themselves because they have this idea in their mind that the role is so simple that playing it well involves only making a few eye catching tackles and playing a very easy pass.

It doesn't. The above all do so much more than that. Another thing that Hammann did so well was read the game and, despite being slower than Richard Jobson, be in the right place to kill an attack time and again. Last season, despite playing an unheard of TWO holding midfielders, the team was broken on through midfield time and time again, with neither Kompany or De Jong consistently stiffling teams with any sort of regularity.

De Jong's use of the ball so far in his City career pales into insignificance compared to others that play the role. The five yard, non challenging, no threatening pass is not the staple of the position. It's just one of many options the player should use, and the least offensive one. For me De Jong has not shown the willingness to play football that gets attacks moving when he wins the ball. His range and ambition of passing, and again, I'm not talking about the glory 50 yarder) has been nowhere some othersn who play in that position and without that speed of thought and forward passing you can't be playing the role at a class level imo.

He also has shown nothing like the ability and influence that Hammann showed in the same role, with Hammann's reading of the play, influence on the game and intelligent use of the ball being far superior.

The above might sound like an attack on De Jong. It's not. I suppose if anything it's an 'attack' (if you want to see it as an attack on anyoen) on people who I feel have heard that the position is simple and therefore are too willing to lavish praise on very simple things.

I actually expect him to be far better this season and have faith in him to develop into a top player in that position in this league. But there is no way I am having that he has done it yet. He has done the very bare minimum in that role whilst here.

Yes, he has run around a lot, he has put some eye catching tackles in. But his reading of the game, stiffling of opposition (especially as there were two of them supposed to be doing it last season) and use of the ball has been nothing more than average.

If anyone wants to tell me that De Jong is having anywhere near as much influence on City games at present as Hammann was 20 months ago then I will be astonished.

De Jong is a better player than he has shown imo. But he needs to show it.

How old is De Jong?? Outside of Mascherano (who is from a culture that breeds Def Mids) the others adapted over time into that role where they could read the game I am sure that NDJ will add that to his game in time. Claude was/is a very special player and it is unfair at this point to expect NDJ to be up there with him. Who would you get instead? Lets not get on this kids back and ruin him. Why do we have to always find someone to hound?

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

Not a kid he's about 25 with a wealth of international experience, plus no ones getting on his back.