Negative players or negative tactics...

[Anonymous]

I think there's an argument that as individuals we do not have a single player other than Tevez who has performed consistently above expectations. Now it might be that that's because our expectations going into the season were too high, however it can also be said that good management is about getting the "team" to play better than the sum of its parts - which has clearly not been the case with us this season...

We've probably got the 4th or 5th best squad in the league, and we're currently in that position too, so I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion.

I would argue our squad is head and shoulders better than Villa's or Spurs yet they remain on our coat tails and our biggest competitors for 4th place.

 

[BobKowalski]

Interesting discussion about not imposing ourselves on other teams, especially first half.

While we persist with Barry in midfield I don't think we'll ever impose ourselves on anyone for any length of time. After a promising start at City, he's flattered to deceive, he does cover a lot of ground, can't fault him there, but I can't work out what his job is. Is he supposed to be a defensive midfielder, the link man between defence and attack, a box to box player, or an attack minded midfielder ? For me he just gives the ball away to often, and his control isn't what it should be. Ironically he seems to play much better for England. He should be the player that helps us impose ourselves on teams, but he's not, and I don't think either of his City managers have worked out how or where to play him to get the best out of him.

Billy a question, which Stoke game are you referring to in particular ? The home cup game ? I thought we did dominate for the first 15-20 minutes, then lost our way. The away cup game ? I didn't go, but from what I could work out from the reports and commentary, we were the better team by quite a distance until Adebayor got sent off. The away league game, I agree we were poor all round.

Yesterday I would put down to the players, and in a number of games this year I'd say the same (under both managers). The players sometimes seem to turn up thinking they've won already, yesterday was a case in point, we started like we were 2-0 up, cruising, and when Sunderland had the cheek to chase every lost cause, a number of ours seemed to want to hide.

Richards a couple of times just kicked the ball anywhere because he didn't fancy the pressure he was being put under. Lescott for 15-20 minutes was hopeless, Kompany wasn't much better, Bridge was poor, and was replaced. Our defence (one of the good points under Mancini) probably had its worst 20 minutes of the season, and we were lucky we weren't further behind by the time they got their act together.

Midfield was also very poor, Barry just doesn't cut it for me. De Jong was winning tackles, but then giving the ball away cheaply, and Zabaleta is a right back out of position.

Up front SWP was woeful not for the first time, and while Bellamy was trying, he's just not on form at the moment. Tevez worked very hard, but he can't do it alone.

I don't think anyone can criticise Mancini for his starting team yesterday, after all it was pretty well the side that put 4 past Chelsea, but, and I said it on the day, we only really played in that game for 25 minutes, and for a lot of the game we were poor.

My conclusion is its the players we have, they don't and won't ever make a team, and both managers have struggled to impose themselves on the players . We all sit there and look at this squad, the best we have ever had, and we rightly expect better from it, but its a country mile away from a team.

If Mancini stays, and I think he will, then he's going to need to ship out a number of players.

I'd keep

Given, Kompany, Lescott, Tevez, Bellamy, De Jong, Adabayor, and Johnson for first team regulars, though getting Adebayor and Tevez to work is a puzzle that may be beyond any manager.

I'd keep Vieira, Zabaleta, Ireland, and Onouha, as back up, and hope that the two we've brought through can improve.

I'd bring back Hart, Weiss, and Robinho to compete for first team.

I'd dump Taylor, Silvinho, Toure, Santa Cruz, Barry, Petrov, Richards, Garrido, and Bridge.

That's a huge clear out, and its going to cost a fortune to rebuild the squad, but for me there are too many in that list that just don't cut it, and no manager will find it easy.

I think there's an argument that as individuals we do not have a single player other than Tevez who has performed consistently above expectations. Now it might be that that's because our expectations going into the season were too high, however it can also be said that good management is about getting the "team" to play better than the sum of its parts - which has clearly not been the case with us this season...

I tend to agree that the team has yet to consistently play better than the sum of its parts and that has been hobbling us all season. The sudden shift in emphasis between the Hughes way and the Mancini way has not helped. My own view is that in trying to learn the Mancini way has caused some of the tempo and slow start problems because the players are still having to think about the gameplan rather than it be second nature. I also think for some players it will never be second nature and this has lead to some of the 'friction'. I believe the Mancini way is the way to go its just a question of whether he can do all this and still get top 4.

Its a big ask but then top managers tend to deliver the 'big ask' when required so over to you Bobby

 

[cleavers]

I don't agree with that at all.

I think you could make an argument that we have as good a squad as anyone in the premier league. Chelsea possibly have more all-round ability and United have Rooney. All have their strengths and weaknesses of course. A double over Chelsea, victories over Man United and Arsenal speak volumes.

I think we're underachieveing. I think we have a better squad than Villa, spurs and Liverpool without a doubt.

On paper I think we have the best squad of players in the league (and so we should with what we have spent), but its terribly unbalanced, and that's why we are under achieving. Also we have a few players who think they only need to turn up to win, unless we are playing one of the so called big names. Its that attitude above all others we need out of this club.

United probably have the 5th or 6th best squad, but are top, simply because they always fight as a team (well apart from berbatov). We can all hate souralex, but he always assembles a balanced squad that will fight to the death for each other, mostly when they are playing a team they should be beat, they do beat them, and its very rare that when they need a win, they don't get one.

 

[Anonymous]

I think there's an argument that as individuals we do not have a single player other than Tevez who has performed consistently above expectations. Now it might be that that's because our expectations going into the season were too high, however it can also be said that good management is about getting the "team" to play better than the sum of its parts - which has clearly not been the case with us this season...

I agree, I just don't think the players we have will ever be able to make a team, there is no balance between defence and attack, and often no link, so we either defend well and don't look very exciting, or we go gung ho and concede to many. Hence why both managers have struggled to find the balance. I guess my point is that its not Mancini (or MH's) tactics, its just the players don't fit togther. When they do click we look good (second half yesterday), but all too often this doesn't happen.

Many were heralding the Chelsea victory as some kind of break through, but that first half was one of our worst displays this season (until yesterday).

The manager should be able to motivate the team to play, of course, but neither manager this season has managed to do it consistently, and no amount of Mourinho will either in my opinion.

Sadly as is usual at City, more change required.

Again, can't argue with much of that...whether its the players, the chopping and changing of managers and systems, or just individual inability to raise themselves, we have a strange mix of players in the dressing room...

I recently described it as "brittle". There are no leaders in that squad, and other than Tevez, no players who can impose themselves upon a match with any degree of authority. In many respects it's no wonder we seem all at sea at times. This season has been played out under the backdrop of intense media scrutiny, the sacking of a manager who was very very popular amongst large portions of the senior squad, and countless off the field issues which have made us headline news...

...I actually think we are still doing very very well considering all those factors, and I still think Mancini will get us to 4th...

 

[Didsbury Dave]

This season has been played out under the backdrop of intense media scrutiny, the sacking of a manager who was very very popular amongst large portions of the senior squad, and countless off the field issues which have made us headline news...

...I actually think we are still doing very very well considering all those factors, and I still think Mancini will get us to 4th...

That's an interesting point. We're also largely a new group of players.

In my heart I don't believe we'll finish 4th, though.

I just don't "trust" them collectively enough.

I mean we could be 3 points ahead of everyone going into our last match at West Ham.

Would you "trust" the current setup not to just sit at the edge of the box with balls being pumped in at us, until we were a goal down?

I bloody wouldnt. You just know that's that would happen.

I really hope I'm wrong and we finish in the top 4 because the momentum we would pick up would be huge. Not getting there would really knock us back.

 

[moomba]

I would argue our squad is head and shoulders better than Villa's or Spurs yet they remain on our coat tails and our biggest competitors for 4th place.

We've made up 10 points on Villa since Christmas (they've played two less), and 2 points on Spurs so it's not all bad.

Personally think all three squads (and Liverpools) are all that far apart in terms of quality.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I would argue our squad is head and shoulders better than Villa's or Spurs yet they remain on our coat tails and our biggest competitors for 4th place.

We've made up 10 points on Villa since Christmas (they've played two less), and 2 points on Spurs so it's not all bad.

Personally think all three squads (and Liverpools) are all that far apart in terms of quality.

Well I think we're streets ahead of those 3 teams in terms of quality and depth.

 

[Anonymous]

This season has been played out under the backdrop of intense media scrutiny, the sacking of a manager who was very very popular amongst large portions of the senior squad, and countless off the field issues which have made us headline news...

...I actually think we are still doing very very well considering all those factors, and I still think Mancini will get us to 4th...

That's an interesting point. We're also largely a new group of players.

In my heart I don't believe we'll finish 4th, though.

I just don't "trust" them collectively enough.

I mean we could be 3 points ahead of everyone going into our last match at West Ham.

Would you "trust" the current setup not to just sit at the edge of the box with balls being pumped in at us, until we were a goal down?

I bloody wouldnt. You just know that's that would happen.

I really hope I'm wrong and we finish in the top 4 because the momentum we would pick up would be huge. Not getting there would really knock us back.

Ha Ha Ha!

It's City we're talking about so, no, I wouldn't trust them...

I don't know, my gut instincts just tell me that the fact we get to play Villa and Spurs at home, means that we will nick 4th.

If we don't, it will be a huge blow to all of us, but I'd still expect us to dust ourselves down, be aggressive in the transfer market in the summer, and go out and do it all again next season. It's clear ADUG are in this for the long haul, so by hook or by crook...one day we'll be champions...;- )

 

[Anonymous]

We've made up 10 points on Villa since Christmas (they've played two less), and 2 points on Spurs so it's not all bad.

Personally think all three squads (and Liverpools) are all that far apart in terms of quality.

Well I think we're streets ahead of those 3 teams in terms of quality and depth.

From our squad the only players that I can think of that would walk in to those teams would be Tevez, Bellamy, Ade & Shay. Hardly streets ahead.

 

[moomba]

I'd take a 3 point lead going into the last match, and I'd back the players to get at least a point.