I get what you are saying. They were a huge influence on music in general. As I say music appreciation is subjective.Yes I agree with that, that’s what made them so special. Not the education as such, the innovation they were able to do on top of it.
I don’t think any of what you’ve put is an argument about influence though, either in terms of experimentation musically or studio techniques. You admiring them I get, I love them all too. None of them influenced anywhere near to the same extent as the Beatles did though, nor could they compose music to the same level of complexity. Doesn’t mean it isn’t still equally brilliant if not more so to the ears of the beholder, but I was arguing your point about the changes in music. That stemmed more from them than anyone that I can think of.
I think it’s far too easy to dismiss their early stuff as meritless froth that hasn’t aged well. You can stick ‘I feel fine’ or ‘Help’ or ‘Eight days a week’ or ‘Hard day’s night’ or ‘Twist and shout’ (you get the picture) on at just about any party or in any bar and pretty much everyone will sing along. A lot of their early tunes are utterly infectious and I’d contend that two in particular, ‘She loves you’ and ‘I want to hold your hand’ are the most electrifying back to back singles ever released. Plenty of bands haven’t aged well, but The Beatles are not among them. A large part of their ongoing appeal is that their songs are timelessBill I’ll use your post to set my record straight.
Me saying I don get the adulation of everything Beatles probably needs qualification.
I mean they were brilliant by any standard you care to apply.
For me it’s the fact they wrote great songs and the lyrics to their later stuff in particular were innovative compared to the poppy earlier stuff that I really think was of it’s time. Not bad stuff just totally outdated even by the seventies when I was listening to it.
They were prolific at a very high standard and they definitely were experimental towards the end of the sixties and probably broke a lot of modes.
I played a lot of their stuff especially Sgt. Peppers. and really was into it, but I saw a lot of other people’s experimentation as equally or perhaps more important to the changes in music that came in the seventies.
I suppose the crux is, I think they were of their time. They definitely wrote tunes that have spanned the decades but ultimately they are not a band I have on playlists. They are not a band I go back to. They are everywhere. They are on radio still but I don’t seek them out.
Music is subject. I can appreciate their brilliance without wanting to listen to them now.
For me, they're not a band I have on playlists, they're a band I just listen to albums of. I've got a 60s playlist on Spotify and they don't feature on it at all. For the same reason I don't have The Smiths on my 80s playlist or Pink Floyd on my 70s one. It's more for singles from bands that did a few decent songs. Other bands deserve to be listened to in full.Bill I’ll use your post to set my record straight.
Me saying I don get the adulation of everything Beatles probably needs qualification.
I mean they were brilliant by any standard you care to apply.
For me it’s the fact they wrote great songs and the lyrics to their later stuff in particular were innovative compared to the poppy earlier stuff that I really think was of it’s time. Not bad stuff just totally outdated even by the seventies when I was listening to it.
They were prolific at a very high standard and they definitely were experimental towards the end of the sixties and probably broke a lot of modes.
I played a lot of their stuff especially Sgt. Peppers. and really was into it, but I saw a lot of other people’s experimentation as equally or perhaps more important to the changes in music that came in the seventies.
I suppose the crux is, I think they were of their time. They definitely wrote tunes that have spanned the decades but ultimately they are not a band I have on playlists. They are not a band I go back to. They are everywhere. They are on radio still but I don’t seek them out.
Music is subject. I can appreciate their brilliance without wanting to listen to them now.
I never described it as meritless.I think it’s far too easy to dismiss their early stuff as meritless froth that hasn’t aged well. You can stick ‘I feel fine’ or ‘Help’ or ‘Eight days a week’ or ‘Hard day’s night’ or ‘Twist and shout’ (you get the picture) on at just about any party or in any bar and pretty much everyone will sing along. A lot of their early tunes are utterly infectious and I’d contend that two in particular, ‘She loves you’ and ‘I want to hold your hand’ are the most electrifying back to back singles ever released. Plenty of bands haven’t aged well, but The Beatles are not among them. A large part of their ongoing appeal is that their songs are timeless
All music appreciation is definitely subjective - we've had enough discussions on the album thread to seeI get what you are saying. They were a huge influence on music in general. As I say music appreciation is subjective.
But don’t tell me Zappa could not compose with the same level of complexity.
It might not be what a general audience might find appealing all of the time, but he pushed the limits when it comes to composition.
but the impact of The Beatles on their peers and people who came after is unparalleled - have a read of these quotes, it's astonishing: Beatles Quotes
I get what you are saying. They were a huge influence on music in general. As I say music appreciation is subjective.
But don’t tell me Zappa could not compose with the same level of complexity.
It might not be what a general audience might find appealing all of the time, but he pushed the limits when it comes to composition.
“When The Beatles arrived, from then on, a thousand different things arose.”
–Peter Townshend, The Who
“the Beatles ultimately “eclipsed a lot [of what] we’d worked for … [they] eclipsed the whole music world.”
–Brian Wilson, the Beach Boys
“The Beatles were in a different stratosphere, a different planet to the rest of us. All I know is when I heard ‘Love Me Do’ on the radio, I remember walking down the street and knowing my life was going to be completely different now the Beatles were in it.”
–Justin Hayward, The Moody Blues
“The Greatest Band To Ever Walk The Earth!”
–Ozzy Osbourne, Black Sabbath
“If it hadn’t been for The Beatles, there wouldn’t be anyone like us around.”
–Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin
“We were driving through Colorado, we had the radio on, and eight of the Top 10 songs were Beatles songs…’I Wanna Hold Your Hand,’ all those early ones. They were doing things nobody was doing. Their chords were outrageous, just outrageous, and their harmonies made it all valid… I knew they were pointing the direction of where music had to go.”
–Bob Dylan
“This was different, shifted the lay of the land. Four guys, playing and singing, writing their own material … Rock ‘n’ roll came to my house where there seemed to be no way out … and opened up a whole world of possibilities.”
–Bruce Springsteen
“I think The Beatles are the reason I’m a musician.”
–Sting, the Police
“John Lennon has been my idol all my life.”
–Kurt Cobain, Nirvana
“There’s a big jump from ‘I Wanna Hold Your Hand’ to ‘was she told when she was young that pain would lead to pleasure.’”
“Michael Jackson can sell records until the end of time, but he’ll never matter to people as much as The Beatles did. Every record was a shock when it came out. Every single was an event.”
–Elvis Costello, Elvis Costello & the Attractions
etc etc...
Saw the Giles Martin interview about that.I know it's a matter of opinion on The Beatles , and personally I love them and frequently delve into almost unhealthy obsession at times.......but the 2023 mix of the "Red" album is a thing of audio beauty.
Whether you like/appreciate them or not, it really is a treat for a someone who loves the cheeky chappies.