Next Labour Leader - Miliband Resigns

[EalingBlue2]

You're like a randomly generated cliche, stop pigeon-holing posters and people it isn't clever.

and you are stalking a random cliched poster? Not having any go at any poster on this thread was replying to Cibaman not because of any strong feeing on their post but because they raised the middle aged white man comment. Not in a way that expressed any judgement on that way either in the way they raised it. It did seem to me to be the defining issue that raised UKIP to where it has got to, namely the perception of mainly middle aged white men that they have lost power. Something Thatbi have always found ironic given the people who run business, run newspapers, sit in parliament , run the judiciary etc.

 

[cibaman]

They said that about African Americans, if you make politics relevant to people's lives and you have an organised registration drive they will engage.

I hear what you're saying but there is also plenty of evidence to suggest that the young and disaffected are being turned on by Corbyn.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/07/whos-backing-jeremy-corbyn-young

Plenty of evidence? "Its been reported..." "I've been told" "At an Islington North meeting I attended"... A quote from one 19 year old.

The trouble is all of this is happening in a bubble involving a tiny percentage of the electorate. Its rather like a bunch of United fans getting excited that Chris Smalling has been voted best centre back in the PL, in a poll restricted mainly to United fans.

We have very little idea whether Corbynmania is affecting the rest of the population. I asked my 29 year old, university educated daughter what she thought of the Labour leadership election. "What election?"

Anyway, back to the match

 

[The perfect fumble]

I keep reading how middle aged white men are the poor victims of society are they really still in charge? I have been reading for years on here how feminists, immigrants etc have seized the country and made a misery of poor middle aged white men.

From afar I don't think labour will win out of this election, the heart may see the appeal of corbyn but the head had seen the most centrist candidate in the UK win just about every election in 4 decades. Even Thatcher was nearer the middle than Foot. Blair never appealed to the hearts of the left but he won because he appealed to the heads of the centre only when the Tories decided to win back the centre did they win again.

So do labour voters be true to themselves vote for the candidate of their hearts and vote for electoral oblivion? I don't see any of the other candidates giving them too much inspiration or a reason to vote with their heads though so they probably will.

No, John Smith would have won in 97 had he lived, the idea that old Labour was the problem and New Labour had to emerge to be credible to capture the middle ground is a myth, and if you accept Smith could have won in 97, then all you see is New Labour pissing on huge majorities as we lost voters in every subsequent election, until New Labour's vacuousness was exposed for all to see and they ran out of road.

For those that say Corbyn can't win in 2020, you have to ask if any of the other three candidates could, they might hold on to what they've got as the Tories fuck up and maybe the odd seat captured here and there, but Scotland won't come back under Kendal, Cooper or Burnham, seen though that prism Corbyn is not the risk some people might think.

 

[EalingBlue2]

No, John Smith would have won in 97 had he lived, the idea that old Labour was the problem and New Labour had to emerge to be credible to capture the middle ground is a myth, and if you accept Smith could have won in 97, then all you see is New Labour pissing on huge majorities as we lost voters in every subsequent election, until New Labour's vacuousness was exposed for all to see and they ran out of road.

For those that say Corbyn can't win in 2020, you have to ask if any of the other three candidates could, they might hold on to what they've got as the Tories fuck up and maybe the odd seat captured here and there, but Scotland won't come back under Kendal, Cooper or Burnham, seen though that prism Corbyn is not the risk some people might think.

I fear none of them will win the next election, so I am not sure either way it will be an electoral disaster. I do think labour needs to own the middle ground though before it is next elected and needs to do so with a good candidate. As for 2020 corbyn only wins if things get much much worse for the UK and I hope they don't for everyone's sake. But is there a credible candidate who could win - I am not sure it doesn't seem so from afar but I don't know them that well.

I suspect Smith would have won easily in 97 but with a much smaller majority than Blair but that's a guess

 

[malg]

I fear none of them will win the next election, so I am not sure either way it will be an electoral disaster. I do think labour needs to own the middle ground though before it is next elected and needs to do so with a good candidate. As for 2020 corbyn only wins if things get much much worse for the UK and I hope they don't for everyone's sake. But is there a credible candidate who could win - I am not sure it doesn't seem so from afar but I don't know them that well.

I suspect Smith would have won easily in 97 but with a much smaller majority than Blair but that's a guess

Agreed about Smith. I genuinely believe the world would be a different place if Smith hadn't passed away. I don't for one second believe he would have jumped into bed with Bush......or had a dodgy face to face with him in a prayer room, then decide to go to war. Never mind.......

 

[The perfect fumble]

I fear none of them will win the next election, so I am not sure either way it will be an electoral disaster. I do think labour needs to own the middle ground though before it is next elected and needs to do so with a good candidate. As for 2020 corbyn only wins if things get much much worse for the UK and I hope they don't for everyone's sake. But is there a credible candidate who could win - I am not sure it doesn't seem so from afar but I don't know them that well.

I suspect Smith would have won easily in 97 but with a much smaller majority than Blair but that's a guess

If the centre ground is to the right of where the Labour party is and the party can't or won't go there, then the only option is to try and get the centre ground to move to it.

Corbyn's supporters think it can be done, his critics don't, that's really all there is.

 

[Len Rum]

If the centre ground is to the right of where the Labour party is and the party can't or won't go there, then the only option is to try and get the centre ground to move to it.

Corbyn's supporters think it can be done, his critics don't, that's really all there is.

You were posting this during today's game?

 

[CityStu]

If the centre ground is to the right of where the Labour party is and the party can't or won't go there, then the only option is to try and get the centre ground to move to it.

Corbyn's supporters think it can be done, his critics don't, that's really all there is.

That's a naively hopeful way of thinking though. The centre are too economically responsible to consider Corbyn. That was the reason they didn't go for Miliband - too many questions over how he and Balls would spend the nation's money.

I'm more right leaning but I quite like Corbyn. At least he stands for something, even if I don't agree with much of it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You were posting this during today's game?

Yep, I've got my computer on and watching the game on another screen, I hate watching City play on the telly, I'm OK at the stadium but watching on the telly I get really irritable, often at the frickin commentators, so rather than sit on the loo, like my old dad used to do, I post something quick on here.

 

[The perfect fumble]

That's a naively hopeful way of thinking though. The centre are too economically responsible to consider Corbyn. That was the reason they didn't go for Miliband - too many questions over how he and Balls would spend the nation's money.

I'm more right leaning but I quite like Corbyn. At least he stands for something, even if I don't agree with much of it.

Economically responsible? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Either way, you can't have the parliamentary wing wanting one thing, and the party at large wanting another for too long, eventually it fractures.