NHS Privatised behind our backs?

[mcfc1632]

Very much agree with your comments - the Health Service of the future is just too important to be continually subjected to fundamental changes of direction every time there is a change of government.

Re your points:

1. Use of PFI: For me (as someone that has negotiated many large PFI contracts on behalf of both the government and suppliers) PFI has its place based on the principle of risk transfer etc. but the reality is that we (the government) have a long history of poor contracting and the private sector wins out commercially almost every time. The drive for the exclusive use of PFI by the last Labour government though was for the wrong motives - balance sheet treatment.

It is true that the balance of this was down to Labour, but making that statement on here just attracts 'tribal' behaviour from posters - best to say that it would have been better to have the Health Service provision independent of political interference - just effective governance arrangements. Also best to say that both main parties are as bad as each other to try and attract balanced discussion.

2. Key performance targets and provider market: I agree that the targets such as waiting times were a very effective focus and achieved not only improvements but changes to the management culture and accountability. The management of service provision should for me just be approached like a lot of marketplaces where there is active management of suppliers to ensure that there is the range and level of services required. In other markets organisation would plan for direct provision or contracting as appropriate and stimulate/encouraged the development of niche/specialist services etc. Professional supplier market management is needed not unplanned driven my directives from transient governments.

3: Changing demographics of the population: This for me is key and it is so frustrating to hear the debate be so repeatedly about tribal party preferences rather that the real need. People are getting older and the advances in medicine and wider understanding by individuals of well-being will increase the demand on health services and therefore drive up the costs. Also, drugs/treatments are increasing in their effectiveness - but they are also increasingly very expensive - the same for provision of service. It is totally impractical to plan for health provision to be delivered by a single National Health Service. Yes provision should be through a national strategy - commissioning of services should be increasingly linked to local/community needs and provision of services by a range of organisations best positioned to develop and maintain quality of service.

I get frustrated that some on here seem to think that we still live in a world of 'carry on doctor' with some romantic notion of what the service should be based on original Bevan principles - as high quality as they were. The discussion quickly (and always) comes down to tribal warfare - what the NHS needs (IMO) is to be replaced by a Health & Social Care Service that is strategically managed and can be developed and operated free from the continuous distractions caused by interfering ministers acting for short term and ideological reasons.

Thanks mcfc1632 for your excellent points. I would just add that the huge investment of a PFI agreement necessitates that they the hospital trust has very skilled negotiators with relevant experience. You haven't said otherwise -and I know the PFI Company is often in the box seat in these negotiations

I could not agree more with that last point - because that is often the responsibility I have!!

It is just that (having bid for the contracts as well as let them) I know that the dice is often loaded in favour of the contractor

 

[whp.blue]

NHS repeatedly diagnosed my mum with water infections, turned out to be bladder cancer which led to her death.

Sad thing is my mum had treatments on her medical file that were prone to increasing the risk of cancer so why they never put 2 and 2 together I don't know.

It takes me 2 weeks to get seen by a doctor at my surgery. How much is private health care?

It may be age dependant but I have the all in all singing all dancing no limits no excess BUPA and its only about £140 per month my wife's is a bit cheaper but not sure how much I pay for her

They do a family deal as well that includes the kids but forgot how much that used to be

 

[urmston]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/12/nhs-agrees-largest-ever-privatisation-deal-to-tackle-backlog

Is this true?
Please say it is not. We're going backwards in this f**k**g country! We should be proud of our NHS and the right to have an education but we're going to allow for it to be sold off????

Why should we be proud of the NHS?

Overall it is not particularly good or bad compared to other health systems in other comparable countries, and on some things like cancer survival rates it is poorer than average.

No other nations similar to the UK have any admiration for the NHS or have ever copied the NHS model for their own health system.

Many people in the UK do think the NHS is a world beating way to run a health system, but that's because they are subjected to huge amounts of propaganda from the state and people who work in the NHS, and we are hardly likely to get objective and impartial assessments of the service from those sources.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The independent Commonwealth Fund found the NHS to be the most effective Health service in the world.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but the bullshit you come out with Urmston is pretty ordinary.

 

[whp.blue]

The independent Commonwealth Fund found the NHS to be the most effective Health service in the world.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but the bullshit you come out with Urmston is pretty ordinary.

Clearly they never included Germany in that survey

Several years ago my frail mother in law tripped in Germany breaking both of her wrists , she was in a Village about the size of Cheadle, she was taken to a local clinic type place that did A&E and had several operating theatres
she was operated on later that day and they fitted Two plates (Titanium I think) into her wrists. she was discharged a few days later with a letter written to her local Hospital back in Manchester.

When she got home she was sent to the MRI who were amazed because at the time a massive City Hospital like the MRI stated they couldn't do that operation and certainly would not have been able the make the plates from stock held in the Hospital.

So compared to the German system the NHS was like a third world country.

 

[urmston]

The independent Commonwealth Fund found the NHS to be the most effective Health service in the world.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but the bullshit you come out with Urmston is pretty ordinary.

That private organisation has its own agenda and is entitled to its opinion.

No country has ever copied the NHS model or proposes to.

And I don't hear of many European people praising the NHS or coming here for cancer treatment. Why would they?

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The independent Commonwealth Fund found the NHS to be the most effective Health service in the world.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but the bullshit you come out with Urmston is pretty ordinary.

Clearly they never included Germany in that survey

Several years ago my frail mother in law tripped in Germany breaking both of her wrists , she was in a Village about the size of Cheadle, she was taken to a local clinic type place that did A&E and had several operating theatres
she was operated on later that day and they fitted Two plates (Titanium I think) into her wrists. she was discharged a few days later with a letter written to her local Hospital back in Manchester.

When she got home she was sent to the MRI who were amazed because at the time a massive City Hospital like the MRI stated they couldn't do that operation and certainly would not have been able the make the plates from stock held in the Hospital.

So compared to the German system the NHS was like a third world country.

I am glad to hear that your Mother in Law got such great care in Germany. However. A sample of one is not very comprehensive

I agree Germany has a good health service and I know a German doctor, who also rates the NHS.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The independent Commonwealth Fund found the NHS to be the most effective Health service in the world.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but the bullshit you come out with Urmston is pretty ordinary.

That private organisation has its own agenda and is entitled to its opinion.

No country has ever copied the NHS model or proposes to.

And I don't hear of many European people praising the NHS or coming here for cancer treatment. Why would they?

Health services vary across the globe and the Health Insurance approach used in a number of EU countries might not work here - nor is there a big call for it.

By and large, It makes sense for people to receive care in their home countries. The Daily Mail on line is not the greatest guide to the NHS or internation healthcare.

 

[whp.blue]

The independent Commonwealth Fund found the NHS to be the most effective Health service in the world.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but the bullshit you come out with Urmston is pretty ordinary.

Clearly they never included Germany in that survey

Several years ago my frail mother in law tripped in Germany breaking both of her wrists , she was in a Village about the size of Cheadle, she was taken to a local clinic type place that did A&E and had several operating theatres
she was operated on later that day and they fitted Two plates (Titanium I think) into her wrists. she was discharged a few days later with a letter written to her local Hospital back in Manchester.

When she got home she was sent to the MRI who were amazed because at the time a massive City Hospital like the MRI stated they couldn't do that operation and certainly would not have been able the make the plates from stock held in the Hospital.

So compared to the German system the NHS was like a third world country.

I am glad to hear that your Mother in Law got such great care in Germany. However. A sample of one is not very comprehensive

I agree Germany has a good health service and I know a German doctor, who also rates the NHS.

It wasn't meant to be a statement of how good they were just how much more advanced they were even local small village Hospitals were more advance than our Big City Hospitals

The NHS for all the money ploughed into it isn't actually that good value for money wise.

 

[whp.blue]

The independent Commonwealth Fund found the NHS to be the most effective Health service in the world.

There is still plenty of room for improvement but the bullshit you come out with Urmston is pretty ordinary.

I looked into this and think you may have over egged your point a little

Here is the quote I found

Another important selling point of the NHS as an export is that its per-capita costs are relatively low. The Commonwealth Fund, health think-tank based in Washington, DC, rated it among the top performers in the developed world for cost-efficiency.

Not quite the same thing is it