Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 21,648
Lovely post mate. And true imo. I have never voted for her in my life but she is an extremely capable politician and far, far better first minister than that toxic anglophobe Salmon.
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So what I take from that is:What makes her more successful, and likeable than the other leaders, isnt that she promotes Scottish nationalism. in many ways, that doesnt need promoted much. It is that she promotes Scottish social and progressive values, ones based on inclusivity, humanity and an ambition for growth. Something claimed scotland have never had the chance to pursue under Westminster. With nationalism and independence portrayed as the method/vehicle of achieving them.
Unlike the inward-looking, exclusive, 'everyone is below us', conservative, and largely xenophobic drive behind brexit as an end result to enable a 'return to a better time when we could just be ourselves'.
Sure, neither apply to all, there are moderates and the extreme in both. but as underlying ideologies, they are certainly pursued and promoted completely differently.
Scottish nationalism = strong - admirable - progressive - etc.
English people caring for England's interest (nothing happening that is worth calling nationalism) - xenophobic - arrogant - selfish etc.
Yep sounds about right for these threads
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
out of respect for those 'fed up with all concerns Scottish', i'll paste this here, & reply here too, to move it from the G.E/brexit/q.t thread.
Lots of great giveaways, predicated on the idea that the money doesn't have to be paid back at some point hence why Scotland has a huge deficit.
Lots of great giveaways, predicated on the idea that the money doesn't have to be paid back at some point hence why Scotland has a huge deficit.
So it's not Scotland's oil, currency, tax contribution etc etc, but it IS Scotland's deficit. got it.
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
So it's not Scotland's oil, currency, tax contribution etc etc, but it IS Scotland's deficit. got it.
No, the huge deficit still includes tax from oil revenues.
For me the biggest success of the last 3 terms of SNP government, under nicola particularly, is the less metricly tangible but more significant impact on society and the overall mood.
They have managed to avoid letting society descend into this angry and largely biggoted divided mess we have seen elsewhere in the uk, the bulk of it in England (and as such prevalent in the union as a whole), that both the big parties imho are responsible over the same period.
Sure, th ed independence issue is a big divide, and can be unlpeasant too, but at least the pull from both sides is with the same intentions behind it. Both aim for a fairer, inclusive progressive and growing (not just economically) forward looking society, albeit the two different 'roures' to it. there are extreme nutter minorities in both camps, but overall the public have the same interests at heart.
Personally, i'm proud to be a part of that society.
Laughable
For me the biggest success of the last 3 terms of SNP government, under nicola particularly, is the less metricly tangible but more significant impact on society and the overall mood.
They have managed to avoid letting society descend into this angry and largely biggoted divided mess....
Good to hear sectarianism has been eliminated from Scottish society.
She doesn’t care. I am undecided about independence. That is a very significant shift from where I was at the time of Indy ref1. I really don’t think that the current English political players are that bothered about the Union. An independent Scotland within the EU or part of the U.K. outwith. Difficult question for us diehard remainers. I will wait and listen to the argument and implementation plan.
As an ardent yesser that comes as interesting and exciting news.
Taking a view from afar on this thread to see how people south of the border view our politics.
Eye-opening
Don't disagree with that. The SNP, even before blackford, at Westminster, do come across as a group of clowns, with a one string banjo. But then, so does the entire parliament in the last 3 years, there has hardly been any other discussion than on brexit. And even then, it was the snp that put forward the cross party talks and indicative votes, that may and corbyn couldnt agree on, so it isnt pure cock blocking they do.
The issue is, no other uk-wide party really seems to try to speak or care for scotland, or have the ability to convince the public they do, unionist or otherwise.
Which is why there are many unionists that happily vote snp, will say no to in
independence, and have no issue with being asked again, and again and again (as being asked again isnt undrmocratic). They know where they stand, they trust the public, they agree with snp policies beyond the one main one.
I’ve never met an SNP voter that would vote no.
Not one.
I know loads of folk that have swayed toward the SNP after the indy vote.
None of them are no voters though.
It’s still a form of nationalism and it’s got so far because of the anti English sentiment within the ranks.
Even if Scottish independence happens and is a success, and that’s a big whopping if, the social cohesion between those south of the inevitable border and north of it, will be at a low not seen for centuries.
I’m not saying there will be war, obviously not, or even necessarily violence, but the animosity that only stretches to banter and sports at the moment, will ramp up ten fold.
As I say, nationalism always leads to hatred.
This is not something I have ever encountered.
The ignorance on this thread is staggering.
It’s easy for you to just put the SNP and the Indy movement down as being an anti english movement.
There are other folk that live in Scotland on this thread, and maybe they’ve encountered what you quote, but I have not.
An anti Westminster belief? Absolutely. You better believe it.
If you think that people talk about getting away from the English or England then you are sadly mistaken.
There is a huge belief within the indy movement of Westminster deciding what is best for scotland, and that is coming through on this thread.
‘Let the rest of the UK decide, and we’ll give them what they want’
It’s lazy and easy to say that the SNP -I am not a supporter- and the Indy movement is anti English. It’s also false.
I started off as an absolute 100% No Voter.
Then I listened to the arguments. You could do the same