Nils Zander signed [Merged]

[The Fat el Hombre]

I'm fairly neutral about Hughes, but he seriously needs to re-think his strategy about the Academy set up, cause JC is very likely to leave in the next few months.

Forum scaremongering at it's worst

 

[moomba]

I think it is lazy when you go and poach another clubs player at 16, when that club has put all the time and effort into making him the player he is.

Hang on, we've bought him from Shalke, presumably at a price they were willing to accept.

Let's not turn this into something that it isn't.

It's very easy and lazy to get on a plane and go around the world flashing money in young 15 and 16 year olds faces and then put them in your youth team and claim to have produced them. Not being lazy would be bringing through a top class player thanks to years and years of paitence and hard work.

No it's not, identifying the players that are going to be great is extremely difficult, and very low percentage. And if you think the academy doesn't put years and years of hard work in to getting the likes of Sturridge, Ireland, Onuoha etc making contributions to the first tea you are kidding yourself.

I know your brother/cousin (can't remember) didn't make it at the academy, but you need to get a sense of perspective on this.

 

[moomba]

I think it is lazy when you go and poach another clubs player at 16, when that club has put all the time and effort into making him the player he is.

Hang on, we've bought him from Shalke, presumably at a price they were willing to accept.

Let's not turn this into something that it isn't.

It's very easy and lazy to get on a plane and go around the world flashing money in young 15 and 16 year olds faces and then put them in your youth team and claim to have produced them. Not being lazy would be bringing through a top class player thanks to years and years of paitence and hard work.

No it's not, identifying the players that are going to be great is extremely difficult, and very low percentage. And if you think the academy doesn't put years and years of hard work in to getting the likes of Sturridge, Ireland, Onuoha etc making contributions to the first tea you are kidding yourself.

I know your brother/cousin (can't remember) didn't make it at the academy, but you need to get a sense of perspective on this.

 

[Prophet of Doom]

I'm fairly neutral about Hughes, but he seriously needs to re-think his strategy about the Academy set up, cause JC is very likely to leave in the next few months.

Forum scaremongering at it's worst

OK lets see what happens during the Summer. Everybody can keep their heads in the sand on this one, but JC has lost so much control over the Academy that he will walk.

Hughes needs to be very careful cause JC has a lot more support amongst City fans than he does.

 

[AntonDonJuan]

Who said anything about world class? i am talking top class players who play at the highest level. Your example with Arsenal is bollocks because it is an English academy. Ajax is the best example of local kids going to an academy between 6 and 10 years old and being thrust onto the world stage at 18 and playing at the highest level for years and years. They do it every year. The only club who has ever come close to that in England since the academy system started in 98 was West Ham with Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Carrick, Lampard ect.

"Our academy is.....it's one of the best in the World"

HA, do you really beleive that?? Willo Flood, Stephen Jordan, leon Mike, Chris Killen, Kelvin Etuhu, Sam Williamson are really something to be proud of, aren't they? that and being fined £5 for swearing doesn't make it one of the best in the world.

So just because Arsenal has an English academy, they are exempt from being lazy then? You have just contradicted yourself. Wenger poaches 90% of his youngsters, he's the worst in the world for it. You can't just pick out shite players we have produced..."Willo Flood, Stephen Jordan, leon Mike, Chris Killen, Kelvin Etuhu, Sam Williamson"...I bet you that 8/10 players that come through an academy into a first team are poached from other academy's between the ages of 14-16, in fact i put money on it. No club can pick kids up from schools and expect to turn them into top class players. All the best kids are already at an academy, and if they haven't been picked up then 99% of the time it's because they aren't good enough, no top kid will get "missed" by scouts.

If it's so easy to turn the kids of Manchester into top class youngsters, why don't the rags do it then?

Your argument is stupid

 

[Anonymous]

I think it is lazy when you go and poach another clubs player at 16, when that club has put all the time and effort into making him the player he is.

Hang on, we've bought him from Shalke, presumably at a price they were willing to accept.

Let's not turn this into something that it isn't.

They had no choice but to accept the price, if a youth player wants to go at the end of his youth contract before he signs the big professional one then it is upto them, Schalke had no say in the matter and no choice but to accept a compensation package from City.

It is poaching, there is no other way around it, just because money has been exchanged doesn't mean it is ok. It is all legal and City have done nothing wrong but it has to stop and is one of the few things i agree with Platini on.

It's very easy and lazy to get on a plane and go around the world flashing money in young 15 and 16 year olds faces and then put them in your youth team and claim to have produced them. Not being lazy would be bringing through a top class player thanks to years and years of paitence and hard work.

No it's not, identifying the players that are going to be great is extremely difficult, and very low percentage. And if you think the academy doesn't put years and years of hard work in to getting the likes of Sturridge, Ireland, Onuoha etc making contributions to the first tea you are kidding yourself.

I know your brother/cousin (can't remember) didn't make it at the academy, but you need to get a sense of perspective on this.[/quote]

I am not attacking City's academy, i am attacking the academy system in England and i am not the only one doing it. I am just a mere voice on an internet message board, there are many top people in the game who agree.

As regards to my cousin, he is still in City's academy as far as i know, he is more of a distant cousin that i have not seen for nearly two years now so my perspective on this is nothing more than a football fan.

 

[Anonymous]

So just because Arsenal has an English academy, they are exempt from being lazy then? You have just contradicted yourself. Wenger poaches 90% of his youngsters, he's the worst in the world for it.

I didn't contradict myself, i misread your post. You're right Arsene Wenger is the worlds worst at poaching other players but he has said this is because the standard of youth players in this country is terrible. It is only now you are finally starting to see some home grown youth players coming through at Arsenal with the likes of Gibbs and Wilshere, that is down to the way Wenger re-structured the whole Arsenal academy, he re-structed it when the likes of Wilshere and co were 9 and 10 which is why now at 16, 17 and 18 we are seeing decent lads coming through from Arsenal.

You can't just pick out shite players we have produced..."Willo Flood, Stephen Jordan, leon Mike, Chris Killen, Kelvin Etuhu, Sam Williamson"...I bet you that 8/10 players that come through an academy into a first team are poached from other academy's between the ages of 14-16, in fact i put money on it.

But you said that our academy is one of the best in the world? and that is the standard of players the supposed one of the best academies in the world is producing. If our academy was one of the best in the world then those sort of players would get released by the time they are 16, you would of been laughed at if you took these players to Ajax or Barca's academy, the true best academies in the world. Ours is the best in England but that is not saying much.

The academy's in this country are filled with big lads who are strong. You see when England U17's or U18's play against other nations, the likes of Spain, France ect. The difference is shocking. One team is big and strong, the other is technically superb. I watched England U17 v Germany U17 on eurosport the other week and England got battered 4-0. This is supposedly the best young home grown players in different countries academies, battling it out against each other and the difference is unbeleiveable. Thsi is because the academies in this country just look for the biggest, strongest lads which is the English football diesease. Which is why England are producing players like Micah Richards, Steven Taylor (big strong lads) and why Spain are producing the likes of Xavi and Iniesta (technical top class players)

No club can pick kids up from schools and expect to turn them into top class players.

Ajax and Barca can.

All the best kids are already at an academy

No they aren't.

If it's so easy to turn the kids of Manchester into top class youngsters, why don't the rags do it then?
Your argument is stupid

You seem to think that i am criticising City's academy on it's own, which i have said from the start i haven't. The rags can't turn Manchester youngsters into top class players becayse the academy system is shit in England which means we have to go and get your Nils Zanders and Kiko Macheda's of this world.

 

[AntonDonJuan]

Right, so you're not criticising the academies then, you're bemoaning the lack of talented kids in the country. That isn't our fault, and if there are better youngsters abroad then so be it, it's not our fault. As for every academy picking big strong lads, that's a bit of a myth. City are the worst for picking big, strong lads and not technically sound players. My bird's brother is captain of Utd's U15's team. He had loads of clubs after him and it came down to City and Utd. In the end, his dad chose Utd because after a tour of City's academy he only saw big, strong lads who weren't great technically, but were miles ahead of other kids in terms of strength, speed and size. I've been watching my bird's brother a few times, and Utd have a lad in centre midfield called Ben, he is about 5ft, and is the best player i've ever seen at 14. Seriously, the kid is unbelievable. IMO, if he turned up at Citym he wouldn't have been given a chance. My boss at work knows someone at City's academy who oversees it's running, and he has said the same thing about our recruiting policy. He also passed on some interesting info on Michael Johnson with regards as to why he isn't playing.

We have the best academy in England, full of big strong lads. I'm not saying they all are, before you jump on my back and pick apart my post, but the majority of the youngsters are. When they get to 16+ they start to get filtered out, but they shouldn't be in there in the first place on sheer athleticism.

 

[Anonymous]

Right, so you're not criticising the academies then, you're bemoaning the lack of talented kids in the country. That isn't our fault, and if there are better youngsters abroad then so be it, it's not our fault. As for every academy picking big strong lads, that's a bit of a myth. City are the worst for picking big, strong lads and not technically sound players. My bird's brother is captain of Utd's U15's team. He had loads of clubs after him and it came down to City and Utd. In the end, his dad chose Utd because after a tour of City's academy he only saw big, strong lads who weren't great technically, but were miles ahead of other kids in terms of strength, speed and size. I've been watching my bird's brother a few times, and Utd have a lad in centre midfield called Ben, he is about 5ft, and is the best player i've ever seen at 14. Seriously, the kid is unbelievable. IMO, if he turned up at Citym he wouldn't have been given a chance. My boss at work knows someone at City's academy who oversees it's running, and he has said the same thing about our recruiting policy. He also passed on some interesting info on Michael Johnson with regards as to why he isn't playing.

We have the best academy in England, full of big strong lads. I'm not saying they all are, before you jump on my back and pick apart my post, but the majority of the youngsters are. When they get to 16+ they start to get filtered out, but they shouldn't be in there in the first place on sheer athleticism.

No i am criticising the academies, they stink. There are not better players abroad, it's just the authorites in charge of producing them have different attitudes to those in England, which is why this country doesn't produce any decent players and has to go abroad to find players when the kids get to 16 to bring in better because they are either lazy or not good enough. I think they are lazy.

 

[morleyswife]

Hughes out

Too many Z's for me

Zabaletta
Zander

What next Zippy

We have never in the history of this great club, had people with surnames that started with Z
(prove me wrong)

How very foregin

 

[stockportblue]

As i understand it City have some good English/British lads around 14/15-the foreign lads from Zander to Mak to Weiss are to fill a void until the younger lads come through.Arsenal did the same with Fabregas and others until their present group came through and now dont rely so much on overseas recruitment although they have a dutch midfield player and spanish centre half in the current u16 age group.

Closer to home they also have Kyle Bartley a stockport lad in their under 18 side!!!!!

 

[moomba]

They had no choice but to accept the price, if a youth player wants to go at the end of his youth contract before he signs the big professional one then it is upto them, Schalke had no say in the matter and no choice but to accept a compensation package from City.

You have no idea if that is the case. We could have made Shalke an offer they found quite acceptable, the fact that they haven't (as yet) whinged about it suggests that is quite a possible scenario.

 

[yerwot?]

youth development in the U.K is still cursed by the "fancy dan" syndrome . skill gets ignored by the quest for raw strength .Its why the national team has been poor for so long .1966 not excepted . Jack charlton and nobby stiles typify an english type player . the prem has been changed for the good by foreign managers . when we get foreign coaches in the youth set-up we will see a huge improvement

 

[Anonymous]

They had no choice but to accept the price, if a youth player wants to go at the end of his youth contract before he signs the big professional one then it is upto them, Schalke had no say in the matter and no choice but to accept a compensation package from City.

You have no idea if that is the case. We could have made Shalke an offer they found quite acceptable, the fact that they haven't (as yet) whinged about it suggests that is quite a possible scenario.

Yes i do have an idea about what goes on. You cannot buy anyone 16 years or under. If a player under 16 decides to move clubs a copensation package has to be agreed between the two clubs on the basis of how many years he has been there and how much that club has been a key factor in the players development. We didn't buy Daniel Sturridge for 40k, the 40k was a compensation package. Just because the clubs haven't "whinged" about it doesn't mean they are happy. Stuttgart weren't very happy at us "poaching" their 16 year old keeper Loris Karius last month.

 

[Anonymous]

youth development in the U.K is still cursed by the "fancy dan" syndrome . skill gets ignored by the quest for raw strength .Its why the national team has been poor for so long .1966 not excepted . Jack charlton and nobby stiles typify an english type player . the prem has been changed for the good by foreign managers . when we get foreign coaches in the youth set-up we will see a huge improvement

Spot on 100%. This is why when the youth players become 16 year olds, the club shits itself and goes signing some of the best talent around the world because they haven't produced any decent players. It is lazy and English clubs only get away with it because of how much money we have.

 

[moomba]

Yes i do have an idea about what goes on. You cannot buy anyone 16 years or under. If a player under 16 decides to move clubs a copensation package has to be agreed between the two clubs on the basis of how many years he has been there and how much that club has been a key factor in the players development. We didn't buy Daniel Sturridge for 40k, the 40k was a compensation package.

It's exactly the same thing. If we want to pay a club money for a player of theirs, and they are willing to sell (because the money is worth more than the player) then there is no problem. Walcott was still 16 when he signed for Arsenal, so I' not sure where this ruling that you can't buy anyone 16 or under comes from.

Just because the clubs haven't "whinged" about it doesn't mean they are happy. Stuttgart weren't very happy at us "poaching" their 16 year old keeper Loris Karius last month.

Whinge about Karius then, that signing has nothing to do with this one.

 

[kiam06]

According to the Mirror and Star Nils Zander thought he was joing Chelsea and they have said he is past it.

The Sun reckon City are ruining football with this move.

 

[Anonymous]

It's exactly the same thing. If we want to pay a club money for a player of theirs, and they are willing to sell (because the money is worth more than the player) then there is no problem. Walcott was still 16 when he signed for Arsenal, so I' not sure where this ruling that you can't buy anyone 16 or under comes from.

No it is not the same thing. You are getting youth players mixed up with professionals. You cannot buy youth players, if you want a youth player you either have to wave enough money in the face of the player to pursuade him to sign for you when he is eligible to sign a professioanl contract and pay the club a smaller compensation package or you agree to a compensation package with the club which will be alot more.

Walcott was 16 when he signed for Arsenal and his compensation package was agreed between the two clubs of £5m with another £7.5m being paid when he signed his professional contract.

So like i have said all along, you cannot buy youth players, you can agree to compensation packages of 10k or 100m but you cannot buy them.

All we have done with Nils Zander and the keeper is pay a compensation package which is why there is no fee mentioned or even the famous "undisclosed fee".

 

[stockportblue]

All the people who have posted on here please tell me your credentials to talk about youth development in the uk?-anybody on here witha uefa A licence?-anybody who coaches a satellite premiership academy?

 

[bizzbo]

I'm fairly neutral about Hughes, but he seriously needs to re-think his strategy about the Academy set up, cause JC is very likely to leave in the next few months.

this subject is never far below the surface. what on earth has been going on that could make JC so unhappy?

the politics of it are baffling to me.

Khaldoun talks about the importance of the academy at every opportunity.


i hope im not being overly optimistic, but i can see this one being sorted out somewhat.
i would have thought that at the moment mark hughes is not in a position where he has accrued enough authority to have his own way on every aspect of the club. it may be that he is not here next year. cook, and marwood surely have to follow Khaldouns lead. as much as mark hughes may have taken a decisive role in shaping much of the off-the-field development of the club, I dont see how he is in a position to force through things that the academy strongly object to. whatever those things may be. bloody hell. city politics.