North Korea

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The second thing he is trying to do is bring the US to the negotiating table for lifting century old sanctions so that he has access to more resources to improve the well being of the people. This is an intelligent and planned move. They wont attack anyone. The rhetoric and nuclear weapons is just to serve as a deterrent. Once he feels that it has achieved its purpose, he will back down and concentrate on improving the economy. The current ruler is much more modern than his father. Do not for one moment think that these are the ramblings of a mad ruler.

If he is as intelligent as you suggest, he will realise the biggest internal threat to his hegemony is the rising living standards of the people of North Korea.

George Orwell summed it up nicely when he wrote "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" within 1984:

. . if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would learn to think for themselves, become politically conscious and so depose the ruling oligarchy; therefore. . . in the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance. Given that large-scale, mechanised production could not be eliminated once invented, the Party arranges the destruction of surplus goods – before that makes the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent". Hence the perpetual war

 

[metalblue]

Feck...


Ok. Hands up those who actually BELIEVE N Korea are seriously threatening nuclear war??

One of their alleged targets is Austin, Texas...

AUSTIN, TEXAS!!!!!

Somebody must know why!

Second of all, they have a nuclear plant, fine, but we're talking about any nuclear warhead options out of their reach for, at least, a year. Thirdly, there is clear evidence of photoshop at work with some of their 'war games' and what the fook is this high tech sh*t...??

Answers on a postcard...

There's something not quite, erm, right about the antenna on that box of tricks.

The thing that bothers me the most about this situation compared to previous sabre rattling from this lot is that they are publishing pictures in an attempt to show the world they are serious and yet we are just laughing about their archaic and comical attempts...but and here's the big but, somebody somewhere has got this chubby dog eaters ear and are advising him to go down this line so they are either mad (which makes them dangerous) or believe in what they are saying (which makes them foolish and dangerous). Either way this situation is unpredictable because its the first time we've been here with this fella and I'm sure many will look at it like its the same old same old but the bloke looks like the sort of kid that's been locked up in his room for all his life having sex with family members...the sort of weird fucker in the office that you think is just a harmless weirdo and then one day, bang, the fucker just go postal.

Far from it. What Kim Jong Un is trying to do with this show of strength is two things, first one being to serve as a deterrent, so that the US or South Korea will think twice before interfering in the country's affairs. The second thing he is trying to do is bring the US to the negotiating table for lifting century old sanctions so that he has access to more resources to improve the well being of the people. This is an intelligent and planned move. They wont attack anyone. The rhetoric and nuclear weapons is just to serve as a deterrent. Once he feels that it has achieved its purpose, he will back down and concentrate on improving the economy. The current ruler is much more modern than his father. Do not for one moment think that these are the ramblings of a mad ruler.

Intelligent? They have seriously misread the situation if they think they can bluster their way to aid like this. Planned? Badly advised if they think the US are just going through the motions here, they are deploying defensive systems, they consider this threat to be real and will want real change for fear of groundhog day every time he wants something. Rattling the cage for a bit of aid, as they have historically done, is one thing, threatening pre-emptive strikes against the US or her allies is quite another. He had the chance to enact change when he came to power through dialogue he chose to go further down the road his father trod.

You may be right on the motives and outcome rags (I hope you are) and the US won't want war but time is running out if this guy wants to keep the status quo.

 

[Ragnarok]

The second thing he is trying to do is bring the US to the negotiating table for lifting century old sanctions so that he has access to more resources to improve the well being of the people. This is an intelligent and planned move. They wont attack anyone. The rhetoric and nuclear weapons is just to serve as a deterrent. Once he feels that it has achieved its purpose, he will back down and concentrate on improving the economy. The current ruler is much more modern than his father. Do not for one moment think that these are the ramblings of a mad ruler.

If he is as intelligent as you suggest, he will realise the biggest internal threat to his hegemony is the rising living standards of the people of North Korea.
George Orwell summed it up nicely when he wrote "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" within 1984:

. . if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would learn to think for themselves, become politically conscious and so depose the ruling oligarchy; therefore. . . in the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance. Given that large-scale, mechanised production could not be eliminated once invented, the Party arranges the destruction of surplus goods – before that makes the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent". Hence the perpetual war

Not if he is the one who brings it about, if you get what i mean. With this show of strength, he has also endeared himself to his people as a strong leader. After this is over, he will try to project himself as a good leader who brought about various economic reforms.

 

[inchy14]

Inchy,

Not sure you fully understand the U.S. motives for the use of the A Bomb.

The war with Japan was close to the end, i'll accept it may have been used to speed up Japan's surrender, and possibly save lives.
Thing is, this was dropped on your everyday citizen and was done purely for shock value and to say "look what we can do if you don't comply"
I may be way out and if so please enlighten me.

However please answer me this,

Why drop the second one?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The second thing he is trying to do is bring the US to the negotiating table for lifting century old sanctions so that he has access to more resources to improve the well being of the people. This is an intelligent and planned move. They wont attack anyone. The rhetoric and nuclear weapons is just to serve as a deterrent. Once he feels that it has achieved its purpose, he will back down and concentrate on improving the economy. The current ruler is much more modern than his father. Do not for one moment think that these are the ramblings of a mad ruler.

If he is as intelligent as you suggest, he will realise the biggest internal threat to his hegemony is the rising living standards of the people of North Korea.
George Orwell summed it up nicely when he wrote "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" within 1984:

. . if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would learn to think for themselves, become politically conscious and so depose the ruling oligarchy; therefore. . . in the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance. Given that large-scale, mechanised production could not be eliminated once invented, the Party arranges the destruction of surplus goods – before that makes the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent". Hence the perpetual war

Not if he is the one who brings it about, if you get what i mean. With this show of strength, he has also endeared himself to his people as a strong leader. After this is over, he will try to project himself as a good leader who brought about various economic reforms.

I sincerely hope you're right, but human history teaches us that those with unfettered powers rarely give them up and it rarely ends well when they eventually lose them.

 

[Ragnarok]

There's something not quite, erm, right about the antenna on that box of tricks.

The thing that bothers me the most about this situation compared to previous sabre rattling from this lot is that they are publishing pictures in an attempt to show the world they are serious and yet we are just laughing about their archaic and comical attempts...but and here's the big but, somebody somewhere has got this chubby dog eaters ear and are advising him to go down this line so they are either mad (which makes them dangerous) or believe in what they are saying (which makes them foolish and dangerous). Either way this situation is unpredictable because its the first time we've been here with this fella and I'm sure many will look at it like its the same old same old but the bloke looks like the sort of kid that's been locked up in his room for all his life having sex with family members...the sort of weird fucker in the office that you think is just a harmless weirdo and then one day, bang, the fucker just go postal.

Far from it. What Kim Jong Un is trying to do with this show of strength is two things, first one being to serve as a deterrent, so that the US or South Korea will think twice before interfering in the country's affairs. The second thing he is trying to do is bring the US to the negotiating table for lifting century old sanctions so that he has access to more resources to improve the well being of the people. This is an intelligent and planned move. They wont attack anyone. The rhetoric and nuclear weapons is just to serve as a deterrent. Once he feels that it has achieved its purpose, he will back down and concentrate on improving the economy. The current ruler is much more modern than his father. Do not for one moment think that these are the ramblings of a mad ruler.

Intelligent? They have seriously misread the situation if they think they can bluster their way to aid like this. Planned? Badly advised if they think the US are just going through the motions here, they are deploying defensive systems, they consider this threat to be real and will want real change for fear of groundhog day every time he wants something. Rattling the cage for a bit of aid, as they have historically done, is one thing, threatening pre-emptive strikes against the US or her allies is quite another. He had the chance to enact change when he came to power through dialogue he chose to go further down the road his father trod.

You may be right on the motives and outcome rags (I hope you are) and the US won't want war but time is running out if this guy wants to keep the status quo.

This show of strength is on a much large scale than before, but he is at the same time cementing his position as a leader who is perhaps even stronger than his father to his people. After a while he will climb down a bit and i predict US will come to the negotiating table.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Inchy,

Not sure you fully understand the U.S. motives for the use of the A Bomb.

The war with Japan was close to the end, i'll accept it may have been used to speed up Japan's surrender, and possibly save lives.
Thing is, this was dropped on your everyday citizen and was done purely for shock value and to say "look what we can do if you don't comply"
I may be way out and if so please enlighten me.

However please answer me this,

Why drop the second one?

The second one, whilst more morally questionable, was not dropped wantonly imo.

When the Hiroshima bomb was dropped the US expected Japan to surrender immediately. They did not and in the hours and days that followed were procrastinating at best and playing brinkmanship at worst. It is possible that they thought that US would not drop another bomb or did not have one. They were also overly fixated on the fate of the Emperor who they still saw as a god. Truman made a decision to have another show of strength, because he concluded that the first bomb had not been sufficient to properly concentrate Japanese minds. In fairness to him, thousands of lives were being lost on both sides every day as the war continued and an invasion of the mainland, which was feasible at that point, would have been an absolute bloodbath.

Whatever you say about its morality per se it completely changed the dynamic of the Japanese and ended the war almost immediately. I must confess that if I'd been the Commander-in-Chief at the time, the Nagasaki bomb, much more so than the one over Hiroshima, would have given me nightmares in the weeks, months and years that followed. He certainly could have waited longer than 76 hours after the first bomb before dropping the second, but otherwise , in those circumstances, I can't in all honesty say, with 100% certainly that I would have done any different.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Inchy,

Not sure you fully understand the U.S. motives for the use of the A Bomb.

The war with Japan was close to the end, i'll accept it may have been used to speed up Japan's surrender, and possibly save lives.
Thing is, this was dropped on your everyday citizen and was done purely for shock value and to say "look what we can do if you don't comply"
I may be way out and if so please enlighten me.

However please answer me this,

Why drop the second one?

Because they didn't listen the first time, I think the next target would have been Tokyo, it saved 100,000 lives or more, if the US had to invade mainland Japan they wouldn't have surrendered they would have fought to the last man, the casualties on the surrounding islands on both sides were horrendous, I don't think dropping on a military target would have had the same impact, but to level a city in one go was shock and awe at its best.

 

[MCFC-alan88]

Some people need to go and read up about the Cuban missile crisis and see how the Russian population were completely lied to about the entire situation. North Korea is basically Russia circa 1960, politically.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Inchy,

Not sure you fully understand the U.S. motives for the use of the A Bomb.

The war with Japan was close to the end, i'll accept it may have been used to speed up Japan's surrender, and possibly save lives.
Thing is, this was dropped on your everyday citizen and was done purely for shock value and to say "look what we can do if you don't comply"
I may be way out and if so please enlighten me.

However please answer me this,

Why drop the second one?

The second one, whilst more morally questionable, was not dropped wantonly imo.

When the Hiroshima bomb was dropped the US expected Japan to surrender immediately. They did not and in the hours and days that followed were procrastinating at best and playing brinkmanship at worst. It is possible that they thought that US would not drop another bomb or did not have one. They were also overly fixated on the fate of the Emperor who they still saw as a god. Truman made a decision to have another show of strength, because he concluded that the first bomb had not been sufficient to properly concentrate Japanese minds. In fairness to him, thousands of lives were being lost on both sides every day as the war continued and an invasion of the mainland, which was feasible at that point, would have been an absolute bloodbath.

Whatever you say about its morality per se it completely changed the dynamic of the Japanese and ended the war almost immediately. I must confess that if I'd been the Commander-in-Chief at the time, the Nagasaki bomb, much more so than the one over Hiroshima, would have given me nightmares in the weeks, months and years that followed. He certainly could have waited longer than 76 hours after the first bomb before dropping the second, but otherwise , in those circumstances, I can't in all honesty say, with 100% certainly that I would have done any different.

Probably a hard call from Truman as they will have been still losing American soldiers at this point and im sure the commanders would of been pushing for the end game. Its a lot of responsibility for one man to make while people are dying and the enemy was hated in such a way.
These places while populated with civilians were also part of the war movement and selected like most targets for maximum disruption