Open arms for new fans !

[Shaelumstash]

There are a few closed minded nationalistic and even regionalistic (if that's even a word) idiots on here who are scared of any kind of change, who might resent fans born outside of the M post codes. I assure you, these are not the sort of people you should be seeking any kind of acceptance from.

Again, another post lazily assuming that questioning such an unimportant issue equates to thoughts on important issues. We should discuss politics sometime and then see which of us ends up looking like the nationalistic xenophobe.

(Which isn't to suggest that either of us would, not knowing your politics but I guarantee, on real issues, I certainly would not. Yet a large percentage of the population, almost certainly including a lot of 'a blue is a blue' people, hold some decidedly unpleasant and less than inclusive views on important issues. )

So the crux of what you're saying is that there are many people in the country with nationalistic and xenophobic attitudes on "important issues" and that many of them are City fans. However, you are not nationalistic and xenophobic on "important issues" you are only xenophobic on who should be allowed to support City? Or maybe I'm being "lazy" again?!

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

To touch on the original question that was asked to me, and to agree with what the blue from Arkansas said; I think it's a bit different in America when it comes to sports teams and how and why they are supported. It's the most normal thing in the world here for people to support NFL teams from all over. Teams like the Steelers, Raiders, Packers, Cowboys, Giants, Jets, and Dolphins have massive fanbases in every state. You'd never hear people here slagging off "armchair fans" because that's not looked on as a negative thing here. Sure, the super-fans might have season tix (which are very expensive, especially with the introduction of PSLs and the like), but for a team like the Giants, my NFL team (I'm from New Jersey) the wait for season tickets is around 20 years. In Green Bay, people put their newborn babies on the 100-year waitlist in the hopes that even if the baby itself doesn't live long enough to obtain the tickets, they can be passed on to the nearest living relative. In that kind of environment, yeah, being an armchair fan is many people's only option, a fan is a fan is a fan. You'd never hear someone judging someone else over it. We all watch the games on TV and get tickets through friends or on a website like Stubhub here and there when we can. All that being said, I don't even particularly LIKE the NFL.. I mean I'm into it a bit, but to me it's a pretty dumb game on the whole. Other teams I support? Well, the Mets in baseball but there are so many damn games you'd go broke trying to leave the armchair for that sport.. The NBA? No interest really..

The fact is that (probably due to geography and cultural differences) there aren't hundreds of clubs all smashed into a small country with strong local followings and stigmas against outsiders and glory hunters. Yeah, nobody likes people who jump on the bandwagon, but we pretty much pick our teams in every sport. It's influenced by our parents and family, yeah, (I can remember being a little kid and being carried around Shea Stadium by my dad and grandfather - who was from Queens.. so yes, I understand the idea of family and geographical ties to a team) but we are basically free to pick our teams in most cases (although being a fan of any philadelphia teams was out of the question). I can only come to the conclusion that it must be different in England because of how close together everything is, along with the fact that well over 100 years of tradition and rivalries tends to heat things up a bit.

Why did I feel a need to pick? What else was I to do? Maybe if I had known anyone throughout my youth who was into proper football, if I had any family or friends to show me the way, then I could've cut my palm and squeezed holy blood over the ritual stone of a hallowed club badge at the age of 4..

But as it was? My journey was such that I had to discover the game (the real one, not the ones that most Americans play when we are 6 years old and then stop and move on to other things), but real actual glorious football and you know what? It took a while! If not for a good friend and roommate in college, I probably would've been blissfully unaware for the rest of my life.. but my friend started introducing me to the game and I went from not understanding it and thinking it was boring to becoming wholly and fully obsessed with it. All the things Americans said they hated about it became the things I liked. I had to fall in love with the game before I could ever fall for a club. People in England don't understand what that's like I think, since football is a way of life there. Like most dopey americans, I too started by watching the world cup.. (I feel douchey even typing it) but it was that initial interest, combined with help from a friend or two who was "in the know" that got me to where I am today (which is nothing special, but IS informed). Now, it's club over country. Tim Howard and Clint Dempsey can go down in flames for all I care if it means City wins.

MLS has come a long way, but I started watching the prem before MLS too and that was my introduction. Sorry if I can't go balls-out for the "Red Bulls".. but it's not what gave me the bug. The passion we Americans know you in England (and others all over the world) have for the game is contagious! We know it matters to you and when I started to follow religiously and closely, it started to matter like that to me.

Bottom line: Why does it have to be a club in your backyard to inspire passion? If that's the connection you have with it, then fine. I'm jealous, actually. But as I said before, when your only choice is to choose, you choose. I can understand why wacky Japanese tourists holding up "We love U C. Ronaldo!!" signs make you want to puke. I have the same reaction, believe me. But many American fans are not that. Not by a long shot. (Many are, but that's another story for another post)

I chose a few years back not knowing where it would go. before long I began investing many of my waking hours into following this club. It wasn't long (in fact, it was almost immediate) before it took over. There will always be illegitimate fans. But don't paint them as such just because of where they are from.

You say you watch American football but don't "feel the need" to pick a club. Fine! But if you did? Americans would think it was fecking awesome that someone from England followed their team! I refuse to sit back like some "over-it" social scientist and "enjoy the spectacle" without throwing myself into it. Maybe it's human nature, I don't know. And what's more: you love real football (I'm assuming)! of course you can just casually watch the NFL when the thing you really care about is Man City. THe NFL is where I live and I couldn't be bothered for the most part. Like you, City is what I care about, so that has a HUGE RELATION to my life. You're right, 98% of the people in my life - it means nothing to them. Most of the people I know have no clue. How can I be a glory hunter when there's no glory to be had or accolades to gotten from anyone I know? No matter! This thing is not for them, it is for me. That being said I don't know why I am spending all this time trying to explain my POV.. I guess the reason is that I quite enjoy this message board. It's a way for me to be surrounded by people who care about what I do.. even if it is in a virtual way.

I know you used the word "pathetic", but did you ever think for a moment that it just might be a touch admirable? You see me as an idiot an ocean away who think's he's a part of something he's not. I see myself as sharing in a common passion with a group of people even though it's so out of my world as to be almost unatainable. You have the one thing that makes being a fan easiest: access. Me? While the excellent web presence of City and the increase in resources that make the EPL easier to get for foreign fans do help, I'm far away from the one thing I want most, which is to walk into a pub, or City Square, or a train, or any damn place, have it be full of blues who feel as I feel, and break into Blue Moon at the top of our lungs. Even to walk into a place where I could sit down and have an intelligent conversation about football (and City especially) with someone who knew their ass from their elbow would be such a thrill for me! I guess in a way, I'm starting to look more pathetic by the second...

I wouldn't be an entitled dick if I met you, I'd be the guy shaking you down for information, stories, and tales of the club. I'd be the student. Most of all I would have great respect for you.

Anyway, just be thankful! But know that with your priviledged position comes a responsibility to respect those of us who have heard the calling from afar.
Hope this helps you get it.

It does actually. I still won't ever manage to get my head around what you refer to as the American way of just latching on to whatever massive team (and it is always a massive team) takes your fancy and trying to be part of their reflective success. But it explains the cultural difference quite well.

(Although I'd question why, if you disagree with my point of view, you feel compelled to do exactly the same thing with Japanese fans. That seems to suggest that you do actually recognise a bit of the absurdity that I suggest is at the centre of it all)

But, regardless of the cultural aspect of why people choose to latch on to successful clubs and why that might not be as prevalent in the UK (it is with many though), I still cannot rationalise the need/desire to have to manufacture being part of it. And how you justify to yourself that just one day saying "I love this club" then automatically becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. To me it is self delusion and not what being someone who really enjoys the sport is all about. Enjoying a sport and wanting to convince yourself that a lifeless sporting entity from miles away is emotionally connected to you just flies in the face of logic (but I may be too logical, granted). It wouldn't happen in any other walk of life or with other interests outside of sport.

Anyway, good reply. Cheers

just stop. You have no idea what its like to support City while living in America, so how could you say whether we're trying to convince ourselves we love your club? If I didnt love City i wouldnt fucking wake up at 5 am on a saturday morning would i? would i take a sick day to watch a team that i didnt /REALLY/ like? i've spent at least $200 dollars on City in the past few months, would i do that if i didnt REALLY love the club? We go through the highs and lows of City just like you do, where you live has absolutley nothing to do with it. You're talking shit on something you know nothing about.

Oh, right, the old shouting, anger and 'you know nothing' line. (see what I have said about the emotive language)

Fine, you don't like to debate the subject.

You need to be careful though, lest you come across as someone that feels a nerve has been touched.

Shouting down debate doesn't tend to come across as a strong position in any discussion. I'd take a few tips from green pennies post and his willingness to debate, if I were you.

 

[Damocles]

Please ignore JMA, he can't seem to see the mass hypocrisy and massive gaping holes in his logic.

You are right, but if you want to be the first to have a stab at explaining (which the above obviously doesn't) then be my guest.

Sorry, I wanted a bit of back and forth to try and make the point, Ill try and make it without audience participation. These are my main points:

All initial football emotion is manufactured. The timing of cheering, the songs and the booing is all a social norm that is inherited by attendence. Supporting a football club as a child often comes from peer pressure, desire to commit to parental tradition and is initially hollow. I have never met a 8 year old who genuinely loves the club, yet I've met plenty who profess to. People cheers goals at this stage because they believe they should, not as an outburst of emotion. This is the manufactured emotion I alluded to.

To quote Doc Brown, you aren't thinking four dimensionally, Marty. People were only originally considered proper fans who attended because as you know, games were not televised thus performance couldn't be judged at all. This then warped into only local fans who attend are proper fans, which completely ignores the rise of globalism, TV and more recently social media.

Lastly, sport is competitive. People enjoy this aspect of football thus want to root for a team. Due to fanaticism and tribalism, added to things like Bluemoon, these fans do become just as part of a social group as those living next door to the ground. They communicate with City fans all day, which surely is your argument for community based emotion? The rooting for a social institution?

You have trouble empathising because you already have your social group formed and you cannot see places like forums and small networked communities as being an adequate replacement.

 

[johnbmcr]

I will give you two camels for your Wife.

[bigimg]http://i.imgur.com/p08gn.jpg[/bigimg]

You surely think that about City owner and chairman?

Fucking moron...

That's jrb for you. A ridiculous comment to make and not at all funny.

However, I can't quite understand why anyone would go to watch a City match dressed like that. They're there to support City, not the UAE. I wouldn't go to watchwhilst dressed as a Beefeater and waving a Union Jack around like a div as it would have no relevance whatsoever to the reason I was there.

I can only imagine JMA died a little inside when he saw that photo as it rolls two of his pet hates - flags and tourists - all into one!!

unless Al Jazeera have got a team together of late the only ones I know is the Al Jazeera restaurant near me on Wilmslow road of Al Jazeera TV station with more balanced coverage of new and events than either the Beeb or SKY

 

[KansasCITY]

It does actually. I still won't ever manage to get my head around what you refer to as the American way of just latching on to whatever massive team (and it is always a massive team) takes your fancy and trying to be part of their reflective success. But it explains the cultural difference quite well.

(Although I'd question why, if you disagree with my point of view, you feel compelled to do exactly the same thing with Japanese fans. That seems to suggest that you do actually recognise a bit of the absurdity that I suggest is at the centre of it all)

But, regardless of the cultural aspect of why people choose to latch on to successful clubs and why that might not be as prevalent in the UK (it is with many though), I still cannot rationalise the need/desire to have to manufacture being part of it. And how you justify to yourself that just one day saying "I love this club" then automatically becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. To me it is self delusion and not what being someone who really enjoys the sport is all about. Enjoying a sport and wanting to convince yourself that a lifeless sporting entity from miles away is emotionally connected to you just flies in the face of logic (but I may be too logical, granted). It wouldn't happen in any other walk of life or with other interests outside of sport.

Anyway, good reply. Cheers

just stop. You have no idea what its like to support City while living in America, so how could you say whether we're trying to convince ourselves we love your club? If I didnt love City i wouldnt fucking wake up at 5 am on a saturday morning would i? would i take a sick day to watch a team that i didnt /REALLY/ like? i've spent at least $200 dollars on City in the past few months, would i do that if i didnt REALLY love the club? We go through the highs and lows of City just like you do, where you live has absolutley nothing to do with it. You're talking shit on something you know nothing about.

Oh, right, the old shouting, anger and 'you know nothing' line. (see what I have said about the emotive language)

Fine, you don't like to debate the subject.

You need to be careful though, lest you come across as someone that feels a nerve has been touched.

Shouting down debate doesn't tend to come across as a strong position in any discussion. I'd take a few tips from green pennies post and his willingness to debate, if I were you.

I never said I didnt want to debate this, but unless you've been to America or tried to support an english team in America, i'm not sure you know a whole lot about the subject?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[alanjames24]

I couldn't care less if some twats in America wear our shirts and support us just as long as they don't get anywhere near COMS/Etihad

why though? if I ever do get to a city match I will sing until I go into a lung-related coma.

I live in Las Vegas and I wear City shirts and support City. I get to about 4 or 5 games a year depending on how the fixtures fall, so you can fuck right off.

 

[johnbmcr]

I couldn't care less if some twats in America wear our shirts and support us just as long as they don't get anywhere near COMS/Etihad

why though? if I ever do get to a city match I will sing until I go into a lung-related coma.

I live in Las Vegas and I wear City shirts and support City. I get to about 4 or 5 games a year depending on how the fixtures fall, so you can fuck right off.

next time your in Manchester m8 let me know you I'll buy you a drink your very welcome sadly since the yanks had the great insight to sling the English and monarchy out some mother county minds have remained very small indeed

 

[KansasCITY]

I couldn't care less if some twats in America wear our shirts and support us just as long as they don't get anywhere near COMS/Etihad

why though? if I ever do get to a city match I will sing until I go into a lung-related coma.

I live in Las Vegas and I wear City shirts and support City. I get to about 4 or 5 games a year depending on how the fixtures fall, so you can fuck right off.

erm, thats nice. I'm assuming you're not a 16 year old in high school though, right? You have the money and the time to be able to go to games, right? I'm in school 5 days a week and work on weekends and i can barely pay for gas for my car, i'm sorry i'm not as good a fan as you are.

 

[alky313]

Odd that we have foreign owners with little background to the city or club who give there time and money and yet we still slate fans from around the world who appreciate the club as well.

 

[Peoria Blue]

I have been reading the board for probably about a year or so now. I'm one of those "American twats". Enjoy reading and keeping informed, and some entertaining discussions found here.

I have toyed with the idea of introducing myself before, and decided this thread was the perfect opportunity to do it.

City "chose me" indirectly when I visited Europe in the summer of 2000. I was enjoying a lukewarm Duvel with my host brother in Antwerp when Emile Mpenza hit the winner for Belgium in their opening match and enjoyed watching him play. (Later I was fortunate enough to attend the Netherlands defeat of France in person in Amsterdam). A few years later when I started actively following the sport in England and Europe more diligently I discovered Mpenza was playing for City. I believe the club was owned by Shinawatra still. That's when I started really experiencing the ups and downs. Many matches were not on tv in the US yet, so I had to listen through the website, which I find more fascinating anyway. Sometimes I listen to the stream while watching, much like I do baseball.

I will gladly admit to being a football moron, so I probably won't embarrass myself or insult you true bloods by showing my ignorance to the game.

That said, I prefer true football to American football, which I find patently boring and absurd.

However, to suggest all comers on are 'Glory Hunters' is laughable at best. I have been a diehard Chicago Cubs baseball fan that hasn't won a title since 1908. Although I am probably not a legitimate Cubs fan either since technically I grew up closer to the White Sox.

All in good fun, though. I get the emotion. I really do. My alma mater, Bradley University is a private school with a rich, proud basketball tradition (we're good at soccer now too). There are a number of older generation fans who remember the school playing for national titles and don't like younger and newer fans disrespecting that.

I mean no disrespect, I have been reading up on the game and it's history as much as possible. While I have not yet gotten to it, "I'm Not Really Here" is on my "to do" list. I have watched the FA Cup history of MCFC and Blue Moon Rising. If there are other great sources of info I should look into, please share those!

Anyways, good to be here and interesting discussion. I can respect nearly all the points being raised here.