Operation Overlord

[Henkeman]

You're right, it had the unintended consequence of highlighting what HMS Bulldog did, and for a brief moment, shone a light on the American propensity to claim credit for everything.

I might be imagining it (confirmation bias etc) but wasn't Churchill: The Hollywood Years partly inspired by that?

 

[Henkeman]

A good thread by the way - since we often see people talking about how it was all about Russia.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I might be imagining it (confirmation bias etc) but wasn't Churchill: The Hollywood Years partly inspired by that?

You might be right, it came out around that time.

There is a long history of this kind of thing, blues of a certain age will remember this, caused a bit of a stink at the time....

As far as I'm aware the Americans have not claimed credit for Stalingrad, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

 

[Henkeman]

You might be right, it came out around that time.

There is a long history of this kind of thing, blues of a certain age will remember this, caused a bit of a stink at the time....

As far as I'm aware the Americans have not claimed credit for Stalingrad, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

On historical films generally (this is a bit of an off topic aside, I know) a few years back I was at a promo event done in conjunction with Tourism Australia about the upcoming film "Australia" - which was of course, terrible - and they had this American 20th Century Fox PR person come out to speak to us all. She piped up with the classic line "We think this could be this year's Titanic", at which point I started giggling and got stared at. But it's indicative of how they think in terms of film, not real life.

 

[The perfect fumble]

On historical films generally (this is a bit of an off topic aside, I know) a few years back I was at a promo event done in conjunction with Tourism Australia about the upcoming film "Australia" - which was of course, terrible - and they had this American 20th Century Fox PR person come out to speak to us all. She piped up with the classic line "We think this could be this year's Titanic", at which point I started giggling and got stared at. But it's indicative of how they think in terms of film, not real life.

You're right.

Sylvester Stallone was the greatest heavy weight champion the world has ever seen, his statue is a fitting commemoration....

We know it's false but it's celebrated anyway.

All harmless fun, but it pisses on real sacrifice, real achievement, real heroism.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Like many matters, it's complex.
The Americans had a gung-ho doctrine, based on that used by Grant in the ACW. Basically attrition by sheer numbers. Very costly in lives, but ultimately effective as long as you have the numbers.
The British simply did not have the numbers, so their doctrine had to be more conservative. Monty was a careful general who liked everything in place before he attacked. This included supplies, fuel, ammo, etc.
Even this is a simplistic analysis. But in a nutshell, the Yanks tend not to rate Monty because they see him as "over cautious". By their standards, he was. However, he was very popular with his own troops (my Dad was one) as they knew he didn't regard them as mere cannon fodder.
They were all brave men, British, American, Canadian, French, Polish, whatever you may think of those who led them

Just a shame Monty wasn’t quite to careful when it came to ‘Market Garden’ (Arnhem fiasco).

 

[Fred_Quimby]

If you want a good book to read about Overlord then get D-Day by Antony Beevor.

 

[The perfect fumble]

If you want a good book to read about Overlord then get D-Day by Antony Beevor.

Excellent book, as is his book Berlin.

 

[better dead than red]

You might be right, it came out around that time.

There is a long history of this kind of thing, blues of a certain age will remember this, caused a bit of a stink at the time....

As far as I'm aware the Americans have not claimed credit for Stalingrad, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

I'm sure any nation is taking "credit" for anything. The politics room is next door.

 

[manclad]

It’s pretty poor that film didn’t have a single British/Commonwealth person or vehicle clearly in it, despite it being a great film.

It’s not a time to be annoyed at trivial things like that though, it’s a time to remember those actually there and say thank you.

Maybe because it is a film about a group of US Rangers trying to find a US infantryman in the US theatre of operations. The US amphibious assault (in the film) was on Omaha Beach.I think the Americans were further West than the British/Commonwealth forces.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I'm sure any nation is taking "credit" for anything. The politics room is next door.

Is this even English?

 

[kinkyblue]

Maybe because it is a film about a group of US Rangers trying to find a US infantryman in the US theatre of operations. The US amphibious assault (in the film) was on Omaha Beach.I think the Americans were further West than the British/Commonwealth forces.

Correct! I have no problem with it

 

[Ban-jani]

Maybe because it is a film about a group of US Rangers trying to find a US infantryman in the US theatre of operations. The US amphibious assault (in the film) was on Omaha Beach.I think the Americans were further West than the British/Commonwealth forces.

I completely get that but the film isn’t just on the beach and at no point are the British/Commonwealth even mentioned or seen. It’s as if it was just an American invasion, which it obviously wasn’t close to being just that.

Anyway as I say, let’s not descend into argument over one film, it’s about those that were actually there and paying our respects to those who are no longer with us or are veterans still living.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Corbyn received short shrift yesterday from a veteran.

There was a meal organised for the veterans, VIPs, Heads of State and others.

The Labour leader told one of his aide's to go and ask if he could sit and have a meal with this one particular veteran.

His response was sharp - "tell Corbyn to fuck off!"

I had to stifle my laughter.

It was very humbling being in the company of these truly heroic men. Cherish them and their stories while they are here. They are well into their 90s now and may not be around for much longer.

One day they'll go and join their fallen comrades who fought so bravely 75 years ago.

I have wondered over the last few days what might have been the scenario if Corbyn had been around in the late 30's - what particular stance would he have adopted. I doubt very much he would have taken up the line that Churchill thundered out!

 

[better dead than red]

Is this even English?

Yes. :)

 

[Henkeman]

Maybe because it is a film about a group of US Rangers trying to find a US infantryman in the US theatre of operations. The US amphibious assault (in the film) was on Omaha Beach.I think the Americans were further West than the British/Commonwealth forces.

The amphibious assault element was largely carried out by the British too, they are the ones who took the Americans in. It's no biggie, I don't have a problem really with that portrayal, but as a matter of historical accuracy, it was mostly the British/Commonwealth forces (i.e naval/marine) who got the Americans onto Omaha and Gold as well.

As an aside, the ones who really get ignored are the Canadians. The RCN went from nowhere to the third largest navy on the planet inside five years. Quite, quite extraordinary.

And here's your little film/television story. James Doohan - Scotty from Star Trek - was wounded by friendly fire (shot six times) in the D Day landings, losing his finger, which you can occasionally see in some scenes, though he hid it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Yes. :)

Mate, I'm not getting at you, or the Yanks, but history is written by the victors and Hollywood wrote the script.

 

[better dead than red]

Mate, I'm not getting at you, or the Yanks, but history is written by the victors and Hollywood wrote the script.

My misunderstanding, pal. I see now you were more having a go at Hollywood and not nation's taking part in the war effort. My apologies. I agree. Hollywood has a way of distorting events because they think it is a "better" story

 

[better dead than red]

 

[Henkeman]

My misunderstanding, pal. I see now you were more having a go at Hollywood and not nation's taking part in the war effort. My apologies. I agree. Hollywood has a way of distorting events because they think it is a "better" story

It's just practicality. The US is their biggest market, so they tailor it for US audiences. It's why it was quite brave of Christopher Nolan to point blank refuse any American (acting) involvement in Dunkirk. One of the old tricks by those who wanted to be vaguely accurate was to have a big Hollywood star play a Canadian.