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Osama Bin Laden is dead.
- Thread starter Viva Rivaldo
- Start date
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Anonymous
Guest
nashark said:Not surprising really when you consider that Islam is a religion of conquest.
not that i want to engage you in arguement, but christians were right c*nts throughout the crusades.
I know everyone loves a good conspiracy and all, but I don't think there's one here to be honest. Osama is dead. The American government has taken so much flak and criticism for this whole situation, both domestically and abroad, that they're not going to claim he's dead unless they're sure of it. They say they've done DNA tests and dental records to confirm it, and I'm as distrustful of the government as the next guy, but they're not stupid (well I suppose that's debatable). But seriously, the amount of credibility the American government has lost and the sheer amount of criticism they've come under...they're not going to risk losing any more face. Imagine if they were lying about this and it were to be exposed (which it eventually would be)? If Osama wasn't dead, and hears these reports of Americans killing him, I'm going to speculate their would be a video on the internet of him within hours. Obviously parts of this are shady, such as what he was doing in Pakistan (although it's been though he's been there for much of the last decade) but I think he's dead, plain and simple. But hey believe otherwise if you want, I'm not going to try to change your mind.
As for the justice not being served or whatever, let me rant just a little. Obviously a trial would have been ideal, obviously this was not the perfect situation or outcome, but can anyone really have an issue with seeing this man wiped off the face of the Earth? He was a truly evil man, responsible for the death of thousands and suffering throughout the world. I mean this in the most sincere way possible, and I'm truly not trying to offend anyone on here so I apologize if anyone takes offense to this, but I do think that you have to be American to truly appreciate how important finally getting Bin Laden has been to our country. I know that England has been with us since day one on this, has experienced similar terrorist attacks, and that thousands throughout the UK have suffered greatly so I mean no disrespect, really I don't. But spending my first 12 years in pre 9/11 America and 10 since...let me just say words can not describe how much this truly means, if only symbolically. Imagine waking up one morning as a 12 year old without a care in the world and in a few hours later being brought in to an auditorium by crying teachers trying to explain we were under attack, that thousands of innocent civilians were dead and nobody really knew what the hell was going on. Teachers crying, parents freaking out, widespread panic, nobody knew or understood what was going on. Before 9/11 life was easy, there were problems obviously but the world in 2001 was very different then it is today. As I said, before 9/11 the average Americans life was easy...we were an extremely prosperous, rich, and almost unrivaled nation in terms of power, probably the most powerful the modern world has ever seen (again, really not trying to say zOMG AMERICA, get in a pissing contest here, promote American exceptionalism, claim the US was better then anyone else, and obviously we were on a decline even in 2001 now that I look back on it) but it's pretty hard to debate that. Since 2011 we've been bogged down in war after war, economic downturn, have seen our power dwindle and challenged, and faced severe criticism from all corners of the world on pretty much a daily basis. America has been a nation living in fear and we have never truly recovered from 9/11 and who knows if we ever will. The sheer euphoria of what has happened in the past 20 hours...I mean just look at whats been going on. USA chants at the Phillies - yes baseball is shit girls play rounders blah blah blah - game (where Mets and Phillies fans - who hate each other like City and United - were chanting together and embracing like brothers, I know I was there and it's been all over the news), parades throughout Washington and every major city, hell we had a march of a couple thousand students at 1am on my university campus! This may be only a symbolic victory, and trust me everyone knows that, but to many Americans we finally got the guy we have for the past decade held responsible for killing thousands of innocent civilians and bringing and indescribable amount of grief upon not only our country, but the world in general. Maybe it's not "justice" in the most perfect sense, but I think I speak for a lot of Americans when I say justice was well served.
*Again, not meant to go on a pro-america rant or offend anyone, I had a little trouble trying to find the right words here so please forgive me. Also if you disagree, please let me know, I'm open for a little friendly debate and to see others conflicting viewpoints.
As for the justice not being served or whatever, let me rant just a little. Obviously a trial would have been ideal, obviously this was not the perfect situation or outcome, but can anyone really have an issue with seeing this man wiped off the face of the Earth? He was a truly evil man, responsible for the death of thousands and suffering throughout the world. I mean this in the most sincere way possible, and I'm truly not trying to offend anyone on here so I apologize if anyone takes offense to this, but I do think that you have to be American to truly appreciate how important finally getting Bin Laden has been to our country. I know that England has been with us since day one on this, has experienced similar terrorist attacks, and that thousands throughout the UK have suffered greatly so I mean no disrespect, really I don't. But spending my first 12 years in pre 9/11 America and 10 since...let me just say words can not describe how much this truly means, if only symbolically. Imagine waking up one morning as a 12 year old without a care in the world and in a few hours later being brought in to an auditorium by crying teachers trying to explain we were under attack, that thousands of innocent civilians were dead and nobody really knew what the hell was going on. Teachers crying, parents freaking out, widespread panic, nobody knew or understood what was going on. Before 9/11 life was easy, there were problems obviously but the world in 2001 was very different then it is today. As I said, before 9/11 the average Americans life was easy...we were an extremely prosperous, rich, and almost unrivaled nation in terms of power, probably the most powerful the modern world has ever seen (again, really not trying to say zOMG AMERICA, get in a pissing contest here, promote American exceptionalism, claim the US was better then anyone else, and obviously we were on a decline even in 2001 now that I look back on it) but it's pretty hard to debate that. Since 2011 we've been bogged down in war after war, economic downturn, have seen our power dwindle and challenged, and faced severe criticism from all corners of the world on pretty much a daily basis. America has been a nation living in fear and we have never truly recovered from 9/11 and who knows if we ever will. The sheer euphoria of what has happened in the past 20 hours...I mean just look at whats been going on. USA chants at the Phillies - yes baseball is shit girls play rounders blah blah blah - game (where Mets and Phillies fans - who hate each other like City and United - were chanting together and embracing like brothers, I know I was there and it's been all over the news), parades throughout Washington and every major city, hell we had a march of a couple thousand students at 1am on my university campus! This may be only a symbolic victory, and trust me everyone knows that, but to many Americans we finally got the guy we have for the past decade held responsible for killing thousands of innocent civilians and bringing and indescribable amount of grief upon not only our country, but the world in general. Maybe it's not "justice" in the most perfect sense, but I think I speak for a lot of Americans when I say justice was well served.
*Again, not meant to go on a pro-america rant or offend anyone, I had a little trouble trying to find the right words here so please forgive me. Also if you disagree, please let me know, I'm open for a little friendly debate and to see others conflicting viewpoints.
yankblue said:I know everyone loves a good conspiracy and all, but I don't think there's one here to be honest. Osama is dead. The American government has taken so much flak and criticism for this whole situation, both domestically and abroad, that they're not going to claim he's dead unless they're sure of it. They say they've done DNA tests and dental records to confirm it, and I'm as distrustful of the government as the next guy, but they're not stupid (well I suppose that's debatable). But seriously, the amount of credibility the American government has lost and the sheer amount of criticism they've come under...they're not going to risk losing any more face. Imagine if they were lying about this and it were to be exposed (which it eventually would be)? If Osama wasn't dead, and hears these reports of Americans killing him, I'm going to speculate their would be a video on the internet of him within hours. Obviously parts of this are shady, such as what he was doing in Pakistan (although it's been though he's been there for much of the last decade) but I think he's dead, plain and simple. But hey believe otherwise if you want, I'm not going to try to change your mind.
As for the justice not being served or whatever, let me rant just a little. Obviously a trial would have been ideal, obviously this was not the perfect situation or outcome, but can anyone really have an issue with seeing this man wiped off the face of the Earth? He was a truly evil man, responsible for the death of thousands and suffering throughout the world. I mean this in the most sincere way possible, and I'm truly not trying to offend anyone on here so I apologize if anyone takes offense to this, but I do think that you have to be American to truly appreciate how important finally getting Bin Laden has been to our country. I know that England has been with us since day one on this, has experienced similar terrorist attacks, and that thousands throughout the UK have suffered greatly so I mean no disrespect, really I don't. But spending my first 12 years in pre 9/11 America and 10 since...let me just say words can not describe how much this truly means, if only symbolically. Imagine waking up one morning as a 12 year old without a care in the world and in a few hours later being brought in to an auditorium by crying teachers trying to explain we were under attack, that thousands of innocent civilians were dead and nobody really knew what the hell was going on. Teachers crying, parents freaking out, widespread panic, nobody knew or understood what was going on. Before 9/11 life was easy, there were problems obviously but the world in 2001 was very different then it was today. As I said, before 9/11 the average Americans life was easy...we were an extremely prosperous, rich, and almost unrivaled nation in terms of power, probably the most powerful the modern world has ever seen (again, really not trying to say zOMG AMERICA, get in a pissing contest here, promote American exceptionalism, claim the US was better then anyone else, and obviously we were on a decline even in 2001 now that I look back on it) but it's pretty hard to debate that. Since 2011 we've been bogged down in war after war, economic downturn, have seen our power dwindle and challenged, and faced severe criticism from all corners of the world on pretty much a daily basis. America has been a nation living in fear and we have never truly recovered from 9/11 and who knows if we ever will. The sheer euphoria of what has happened in the past 20 hours...I mean just look at whats been going on. USA chants at the Phillies - yes baseball is shit girls play rounders blah blah blah - game (where Mets and Phillies fans - who hate each other like City and United - were chanting together and embracing like brothers, I know I was there and it's been all over the news), parades throughout Washington and every major city, hell we had a march of a couple thousand students at 1am on my university campus! This may be only a symbolic victory, and trust me everyone knows that, but to many Americans we finally got the guy we have for the past decade held responsible for killing thousands of innocent civilians and bringing and indescribable amount of grief upon not only our country, but the world in general. Maybe it's not "justice" in the most perfect sense, but I think I speak for a lot of Americans when I say justice was well served.
not just yanks mate
Johnsonontheleft said:Damocles, you seem to be suggesting that Osama Bin Laden may not have been responsible for the September 11 attacks?
Yes, I am. In fact, I'm not just suggesting it, I'm outright stating it as my frank opinion. There's nothing that I've ever seen to suggest that 9/11 was planned, directly funded, organised or executed by Bin Laden in any way, shape or form. I have seen a admitted forged video in which a double took responsibility, and I've seen some quotes from a US mouthpiece terrorist.
I apologise if I'm unwilling to take a terrorist at his word. Please provide any evidence of his involvement apart from those two I've mentioned.
jerseyblue said:Osama committed several acts of war on not only the US, but innocent people across the globe. I think being sunk to the bottom of the ocean is more than sufficient. The man also did not want to be captured and was firing on the SEALS who were there, and those guys don't miss when they fire back. I understand the point that a proper trial and all that hoopla would be nice, but this man got exactly what he had coming to him.
George Bush also committed several acts of war on innocent people all around the globe, but you don't see people wanting him shot dead.
I get it, you're on a patriotism trip at the moment. Good for you. If you think an "eye for an eye" is the way forward, then more fool you.
Balti said:yankblue said:I know everyone loves a good conspiracy and all, but I don't think there's one here to be honest. Osama is dead. The American government has taken so much flak and criticism for this whole situation, both domestically and abroad, that they're not going to claim he's dead unless they're sure of it. They say they've done DNA tests and dental records to confirm it, and I'm as distrustful of the government as the next guy, but they're not stupid (well I suppose that's debatable). But seriously, the amount of credibility the American government has lost and the sheer amount of criticism they've come under...they're not going to risk losing any more face. Imagine if they were lying about this and it were to be exposed (which it eventually would be)? If Osama wasn't dead, and hears these reports of Americans killing him, I'm going to speculate their would be a video on the internet of him within hours. Obviously parts of this are shady, such as what he was doing in Pakistan (although it's been though he's been there for much of the last decade) but I think he's dead, plain and simple. But hey believe otherwise if you want, I'm not going to try to change your mind.
As for the justice not being served or whatever, let me rant just a little. Obviously a trial would have been ideal, obviously this was not the perfect situation or outcome, but can anyone really have an issue with seeing this man wiped off the face of the Earth? He was a truly evil man, responsible for the death of thousands and suffering throughout the world. I mean this in the most sincere way possible, and I'm truly not trying to offend anyone on here so I apologize if anyone takes offense to this, but I do think that you have to be American to truly appreciate how important finally getting Bin Laden has been to our country. I know that England has been with us since day one on this, has experienced similar terrorist attacks, and that thousands throughout the UK have suffered greatly so I mean no disrespect, really I don't. But spending my first 12 years in pre 9/11 America and 10 since...let me just say words can not describe how much this truly means, if only symbolically. Imagine waking up one morning as a 12 year old without a care in the world and in a few hours later being brought in to an auditorium by crying teachers trying to explain we were under attack, that thousands of innocent civilians were dead and nobody really knew what the hell was going on. Teachers crying, parents freaking out, widespread panic, nobody knew or understood what was going on. Before 9/11 life was easy, there were problems obviously but the world in 2001 was very different then it was today. As I said, before 9/11 the average Americans life was easy...we were an extremely prosperous, rich, and almost unrivaled nation in terms of power, probably the most powerful the modern world has ever seen (again, really not trying to say zOMG AMERICA, get in a pissing contest here, promote American exceptionalism, claim the US was better then anyone else, and obviously we were on a decline even in 2001 now that I look back on it) but it's pretty hard to debate that. Since 2011 we've been bogged down in war after war, economic downturn, have seen our power dwindle and challenged, and faced severe criticism from all corners of the world on pretty much a daily basis. America has been a nation living in fear and we have never truly recovered from 9/11 and who knows if we ever will. The sheer euphoria of what has happened in the past 20 hours...I mean just look at whats been going on. USA chants at the Phillies - yes baseball is shit girls play rounders blah blah blah - game (where Mets and Phillies fans - who hate each other like City and United - were chanting together and embracing like brothers, I know I was there and it's been all over the news), parades throughout Washington and every major city, hell we had a march of a couple thousand students at 1am on my university campus! This may be only a symbolic victory, and trust me everyone knows that, but to many Americans we finally got the guy we have for the past decade held responsible for killing thousands of innocent civilians and bringing and indescribable amount of grief upon not only our country, but the world in general. Maybe it's not "justice" in the most perfect sense, but I think I speak for a lot of Americans when I say justice was well served.
not just yanks mate
no you're completely right. I didn't mean to suggest it was, apologies if i did...suppose my patriotism levels are running a bit high today
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
yankblue said:I know everyone loves a good conspiracy and all, but I don't think there's one here to be honest. Osama is dead. The American government has taken so much flak and criticism for this whole situation, both domestically and abroad, that they're not going to claim he's dead unless they're sure of it. They say they've done DNA tests and dental records to confirm it, and I'm as distrustful of the government as the next guy, but they're not stupid (well I suppose that's debatable). But seriously, the amount of credibility the American government has lost and the sheer amount of criticism they've come under...they're not going to risk losing any more face. Imagine if they were lying about this and it were to be exposed (which it eventually would be)? If Osama wasn't dead, and hears these reports of Americans killing him, I'm going to speculate their would be a video on the internet of him within hours. Obviously parts of this are shady, such as what he was doing in Pakistan (although it's been though he's been there for much of the last decade) but I think he's dead, plain and simple. But hey believe otherwise if you want, I'm not going to try to change your mind.
As for the justice not being served or whatever, let me rant just a little. Obviously a trial would have been ideal, obviously this was not the perfect situation or outcome, but can anyone really have an issue with seeing this man wiped off the face of the Earth? He was a truly evil man, responsible for the death of thousands and suffering throughout the world. I mean this in the most sincere way possible, and I'm truly not trying to offend anyone on here so I apologize if anyone takes offense to this, but I do think that you have to be American to truly appreciate how important finally getting Bin Laden has been to our country. I know that England has been with us since day one on this, has experienced similar terrorist attacks, and that thousands throughout the UK have suffered greatly so I mean no disrespect, really I don't. But spending my first 12 years in pre 9/11 America and 10 since...let me just say words can not describe how much this truly means, if only symbolically. Imagine waking up one morning as a 12 year old without a care in the world and in a few hours later being brought in to an auditorium by crying teachers trying to explain we were under attack, that thousands of innocent civilians were dead and nobody really knew what the hell was going on. Teachers crying, parents freaking out, widespread panic, nobody knew or understood what was going on. Before 9/11 life was easy, there were problems obviously but the world in 2001 was very different then it is today. As I said, before 9/11 the average Americans life was easy...we were an extremely prosperous, rich, and almost unrivaled nation in terms of power, probably the most powerful the modern world has ever seen (again, really not trying to say zOMG AMERICA, get in a pissing contest here, promote American exceptionalism, claim the US was better then anyone else, and obviously we were on a decline even in 2001 now that I look back on it) but it's pretty hard to debate that. Since 2011 we've been bogged down in war after war, economic downturn, have seen our power dwindle and challenged, and faced severe criticism from all corners of the world on pretty much a daily basis. America has been a nation living in fear and we have never truly recovered from 9/11 and who knows if we ever will. The sheer euphoria of what has happened in the past 20 hours...I mean just look at whats been going on. USA chants at the Phillies - yes baseball is shit girls play rounders blah blah blah - game (where Mets and Phillies fans - who hate each other like City and United - were chanting together and embracing like brothers, I know I was there and it's been all over the news), parades throughout Washington and every major city, hell we had a march of a couple thousand students at 1am on my university campus! This may be only a symbolic victory, and trust me everyone knows that, but to many Americans we finally got the guy we have for the past decade held responsible for killing thousands of innocent civilians and bringing and indescribable amount of grief upon not only our country, but the world in general. Maybe it's not "justice" in the most perfect sense, but I think I speak for a lot of Americans when I say justice was well served.
*Again, not meant to go on a pro-america rant or offend anyone, I had a little trouble trying to find the right words here so please forgive me. Also if you disagree, please let me know, I'm open for a little friendly debate and to see others conflicting viewpoints.
ZZZZZZZZZZ
Another 'my country's better than yours' post.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
nashark said:Yeah, that sea burial thing seems incredibly suspicious to me.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Yanks had tortured him or he had killed himself, and they were reluctant to tell of the actual events so disposed of the body in a way in which it could never be recovered. Either way, it doesn't really matter because I'm 99.9% certain he's dead. The U.S couldn't fake his death in case he started giving it out again in front of the cameras.
As for justice, if he was guilty of the crimes which I strongly suspect he was, I think his life ending short is the closest you'll get if we're not talking justice in a legal sense.
In an ideal world, he would have faced trial like Goering, Eichmann, Hess and all the other idiots. But if what's transpired is true, taking him out seems to have bin (pun definitely intended) the only option.
Btw, with those two fellas who tried to reform the Blasphemy Law being executed by police officers and now this, Pakistan looks close to being a failed state. We keep being told of this silent majority but too many in power seem to view it as Islam against the world. Not surprising really when you consider that Islam is a religion of conquest. All we need now is for one of them to get charge of the nuclear weapon. That would really fuck up the race for fourth.
I was nodding through most of this. And then fucking pissed myself at the last sentence. Back to the post I think we've got more to worry about from Pakistan than Iran. At least Iran is relatively stable and affluent. A successful coup has got to happen eventually just by the law of averages. What then? I just hope the UN have the launch codes like they supposedly do for the US and Russian missiles or there's some form of lockdown that can be exerted on the missiles but somehow I fucking doubt it.
yankblue said:Balti said:not just yanks mate
no you're completely right. I didn't mean to suggest it was, apologies if i did...suppose my patriotism levels are running a bit high today
fair enough
I call that justice and revenge
Double whammy!
Well done US special forces