Our inability to set up properly for big games

[belperboy1]

Leicester have proved all through the season that they are up for it more than their opposition. And by that I mean that they are first to every ball, they cover more ground, committed to every tackle, and back each other up. They've played mostly an unchanged 11, so now they have that team spirit and momentum that is almost unstoppable. Most of the top 10 sides in this league will attack when they are the home side. And if they didn't the fans would be in uproar. Leicester know this, so they sit back, absorb pressure a BANG hit you on the break. I reckon the way to beat them is to play them at their own game. Shut up shop and don't let em run in behind you, or play balls over the top to Vardy, then force them into making mistakes, as the likes of Huth and Simpson try to pass themselves out of trouble. City would comfortably beat them in a tight passing duel. But as we have seen all season, nobody plays to Leicesters weaknesses.

Good post.
If you are much better than opponents you can play your own way, with little regard to opposition. At present we are not loads better so need some thought to opposition.
At villa we played 3 midfield Sat back and broke quickly .They had one shot. However this wad not a tactical plan ,it was to give Toure a rest.
That said onwards swords raised to the valley of deat

 

[OB1]

Leicester have proved all through the season that they are up for it more than their opposition. And by that I mean that they are first to every ball, they cover more ground, committed to every tackle, and back each other up. They've played mostly an unchanged 11, so now they have that team spirit and momentum that is almost unstoppable. Most of the top 10 sides in this league will attack when they are the home side. And if they didn't the fans would be in uproar. Leicester know this, so they sit back, absorb pressure a BANG hit you on the break. I reckon the way to beat them is to play them at their own game. Shut up shop and don't let em run in behind you, or play balls over the top to Vardy, then force them into making mistakes, as the likes of Huth and Simpson try to pass themselves out of trouble. City would comfortably beat them in a tight passing duel. But as we have seen all season, nobody plays to Leicesters weaknesses.

It's an interesting one for City; if we took the sit back approach in every game for the rest of the season, what would opponents do? What happens if they won't come out of their shell? Do our back four end up playing keep ball?

One thing that will be interesting next season will be to see how the team moves forward as a unit and how players are positioned to deal with counter attacks, will we notice a big difference? I bloody hope so; I would love to know how (or if) Pellers deals with this in training?

 

[Phil1]

Er no, Silva's defensive work has been a long standing matter but he just doesn't get stick for it. When we got done by Ajax, didn't de Boer make a comment about knowing that Nasri and Silva would switch off from their defensive duties at some point and that could be exploited?

Last season, the City player that made the biggest contribution in respect of goal scoring moves was Yaya, who was second in the EPL in that regard, but he gets huge stick for being lazy, worthless lump etc.

And, just for the record, cos I know how it might look, I do not favour Yaya over Dave or Dave over Sergio or vice-versa. I favour objectivity; hence my liking for facts and my enjoyment of Dax's attempt to bring that to the debate - not that I have time to read the whole thread.

Every player has to do their bit.

None of that changes the fact I don't think he's told to work hard defensively. Sure, he'll be given some responsibility but I genuinely don't think our manager makes an issue of it and therefore Silva plays his game the way he does.
My point about him only getting grief recently is simply that. It might have been an issue for a long time but it's rarely been mentioned because most concentrate on the positives - of which there were (and still are) many. Now he's playing poorly his game has become magnified on here and his defensive shortcomings are being laid out.
We agree on your last sentence though.

 

[blueinsa]

Leicester have proved all through the season that they are up for it more than their opposition. And by that I mean that they are first to every ball, they cover more ground, committed to every tackle, and back each other up. They've played mostly an unchanged 11, so now they have that team spirit and momentum that is almost unstoppable. Most of the top 10 sides in this league will attack when they are the home side. And if they didn't the fans would be in uproar. Leicester know this, so they sit back, absorb pressure a BANG hit you on the break. I reckon the way to beat them is to play them at their own game. Shut up shop and don't let em run in behind you, or play balls over the top to Vardy, then force them into making mistakes, as the likes of Huth and Simpson try to pass themselves out of trouble. City would comfortably beat them in a tight passing duel. But as we have seen all season, nobody plays to Leicesters weaknesses.

Completely agree with this.

Go like for like, invite them on to our organised back 8 for a change and then use the pace of Sterling and Kun on the break.

We cant keep playing keep ball from left to right to left.......

 

[Neville Kneville]

Er no, Silva's defensive work has been a long standing matter but he just doesn't get stick for it. When we got done by Ajax, didn't de Boer make a comment about knowing that Nasri and Silva would switch off from their defensive duties at some point and that could be exploited?

Last season, the City player that made the biggest contribution in respect of goal scoring moves was Yaya, who was second in the EPL in that regard, but he gets huge stick for being lazy, worthless lump etc.

And, just for the record, cos I know how it might look, I do not favour Yaya over Dave or Dave over Sergio or vice-versa. I favour objectivity; hence my liking for facts and my enjoyment of Dax's attempt to bring that to the debate - not that I have time to read the whole thread.

Every player has to do their bit.

Do you think it's actually possible for the attacking players to 'do their bit' to the extent required in this system, & still have the requied energy to 'do their bit' at the other end though ?

I don't. They could perhaps do a bit more, but they all do from time to time. It's not like in the case of Dzeko where he would often just stand about watching. Silva makes challenges, Aguero gets himself between the cbs, they don't ver often run 60 yards back, but how often do Messi or Xavi/Iniesta, Neymar, etc do that ? Even in midfield, how effective would Thiago or Xabi Alonso be, if they had to chase Jamie Vardy on a counter attack, or even chase James Milner for that matter ? Our players are being asked to sprint back 60 yards rather than ten.

I think the case you are talking about re Ajax btw, we ridiculously had Aguero playing on the left with a space behind him, so they targeted it.

(That was one example of why the previous manager was as flawed as this one imo, along with his back 5 with totally unsuited players).

 

[shallyman]

It's an interesting one for City; if we took the sit back approach in every game for the rest of the season, what would opponents do? What happens if they won't come out of their shell? Do our back four end up playing keep ball?

One thing that will be interesting next season will be to see how the team moves forward as a unit and how players are positioned to deal with counter attacks, will we notice a big difference? I bloody hope so; I would love to know how (or if) Pellers deals with this in training?

I think that this would be a specific tactic for the likes of Leicester, who's main threat is running into the space behind your defense. If there was no space in behind, then they'd have to play it around and through you. That's not what they are good at. But it is what City are better at.

 

[nice neil]

That first goal is still winding me up. When you concede goals like that, and the one from the throw in at West Ham, you're fighting a losing battle.
The confidence that we can win anyway, even after giving away completely shit goals is well and truly gone.
Yet again, we dominate possession, create next to nothing and get our arses smacked on the break.
It seems we've been well and truly sussed out by almost everyone.
We pass, pass, pass, and pass again until we work our full backs or wingers into a good crossing position, but even though we've committed about 8 players forward, there's only one (Little) man in the box against six defenders.
Every team knows we work our way to the bye-line then try to cut it back, so they plant 5 or 6 bodies at the near post.
The likes of Navas, who I've watched for years and always been impressed how he picks out a man in the box, are made to look shite because the odds of him finding our one striker in a box full of defenders is almost non-existent.
There was one point on Saturday when Sterling got to the Bye line and ran into the box (second half), when as soon as he lifted his head to look for a cross, he was swamped by SIX Leicester players !
That is organisation and commitment that is sadly lacking in most of our defending.
Of course, he hit his cross straight into a Leicester player, it bounced kindly for them and we were hit on the break Yet again ?!!

 

[OB1]

None of that changes the fact I don't think he's told to work hard defensively. Sure, he'll be given some responsibility but I genuinely don't think our manager makes an issue of it and therefore Silva plays his game the way he does.
My point about him only getting grief recently is simply that. It might have been an issue for a long time but it's rarely been mentioned because most concentrate on the positives - of which there were (and still are) many. Now he's playing poorly his game has become magnified on here and his defensive shortcomings are being laid out.
We agree on your last sentence though.

Then presumably the manager doesn't expect Yaya to defend much, or Sergio or... And nor did Mancini.

 

[TFC]

Our record against the top 6 this season makes me want to gently weep myself to sleep at nights.

 

[Phil1]

Then presumably the manager doesn't expect Yaya to defend much, or Sergio or... And nor did Mancini.

Yes, that's a fair assumption regards Manuel. Yaya was a lot more mobile in his early days with us. He was a beast who could get around the pitch with a lot more ease than he does nowadays.
The main reason I think he gets so much stick is because of how noticeable his movement is on the pitch, unfortunately his hulking frame doesn't help him in that respect when watching from the stands.