Our inability to set up properly for big games

[r.soleofsalford]

The high defensive line absolutely requires the midfield and forwards (plus the full backs) to pressure the opposition midfield and defence. That prevents them having time on the ball and getting it to their forwards. But we didn't do that and their midfield were able to play the ball with ease.

But even playing a high-line against Leicester was utterly stupid and shows up the complete disregard for thinking about our opponents from our coaching team. We knew they would cede possession and look to hit us on the break. They've won 5 out of 6 games against the top 8 teams playing that way (and 0 out of 4 at home). So you play a flatter back four (with Clichy & Sagna who are better defensively and quicker) and bring them back 10 yards. You maybe even start Fernando in front of them for extra cover against the runs of Vardy and Mahrez. You don't have to worry about the space between our defence and midfield because it won't really be contested or exploited.

If a coach who is paid millions a year can't or won't see that then we're better off without him. Spurs will be more of the same on Sunday except their defence will be higher than Leicester's. They'll press us in midfield, will break at speed and we won't have the answer again.

well said pb. but lets hope we are proved wrong

 

[Lancet Fluke]

The high defensive line absolutely requires the midfield and forwards (plus the full backs) to pressure the opposition midfield and defence. That prevents them having time on the ball and getting it to their forwards. But we didn't do that and their midfield were able to play the ball with ease.

But even playing a high-line against Leicester was utterly stupid and shows up the complete disregard for thinking about our opponents from our coaching team. We knew they would cede possession and look to hit us on the break. They've won 5 out of 6 games against the top 8 teams playing that way (and 0 out of 4 at home). So you play a flatter back four (with Clichy & Sagna who are better defensively and quicker) and bring them back 10 yards. You maybe even start Fernando in front of them for extra cover against the runs of Vardy and Mahrez. You don't have to worry about the space between our defence and midfield because it won't really be contested or exploited.

If a coach who is paid millions a year can't or won't see that then we're better off without him. Spurs will be more of the same on Sunday except their defence will be higher than Leicester's. They'll press us in midfield, will break at speed and we won't have the answer again.

My only hope for Spurs is that the injury to Silva will force him to pick a midfield that will be much more industrious and push Yaya further forward. At least if we can press them in midfield then the high line might not be exposed quite as badly. Then again I thought that when Navas got injured but he still managed to shuffle things around so that he could shoe horn Yaya into the middle. The more I think about the team he put out and where on the pitch he had particular players operating, the more insane it looks considering he must have known exactly what Leicester were going to do.

 

[bert38]

The tactics against Leicester were totally reliant on not conceding an early goal.....

 

[Lancet Fluke]

The tactics against Leicester were totally reliant on not conceding an early goal.....

Ok. So if they hadn't scored that early goal how do you think the match would have panned out. To me it looked like they could carve out a half decent opportunity every time they attacked, I'm not sure that would have changed had we managed to clear that early free kick.

 

[bert38]

Pellegrini clearly picked Zabaleta and Kolarov in the hope that we'd sit on them and break them down whilst taking the risk of the counter attack. The problem with that was not only the risk of conceding first but also that we haven't got the energy in the team at present to press high up when we lose the ball-as the second goal showed. Yes, it ended up being a mess.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Just seen that Kante, who is essentially a defensive midfield player, had half of his touches in our half. That alone shows our use of the high line was utterly farcical. If we'd operated it correctly he should have been pinned in his own half most of the time.

 

[Neville Kneville]

My hope v Spurs is that we nick a goal. I don't think they are a great football team at all, they are just mainly big & athletic. Like us, they have been nothing special against anyone half decent & are only where they are due to bullying shit teams.

Hopefully even Pellegrini will realise the importance of this game. We outpassed them easily last time & should do it again if we bother to turn up. Nick a goal & then make them come out. Then if we are sensible, they are fucked.

This of course requires the manager to accept we are actually fighting for the title & not playing a pre season friendly thus plan accordingly. But surely the penny has dropped even with him after Saturday ?

 

[kippaxblue76]

Anyone with half a football brain could see after the first few minutes it wasn't working, Delph on the left ? a slow back 4 with a high line ? no pressing when we lost possession ?

I know he was limited with team selection but i couldn't believe what i was seeing, 2 quicker more athletic fullbacks, back 4 drop off 10 yards, Delph and Dinho in front of them with Silva and Sterling wide, Yaya behind Aguero. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but the lads we sit with pretty much all said the same thing before it even kicked off. No thought for the opposition whatsoever and towards the end of the game i couldn't even tell who was playing where, shambles.

 

[BlueAnorak]

The high defensive line absolutely requires the midfield and forwards (plus the full backs) to pressure the opposition midfield and defence. That prevents them having time on the ball and getting it to their forwards. But we didn't do that and their midfield were able to play the ball with ease.

But even playing a high-line against Leicester was utterly stupid and shows up the complete disregard for thinking about our opponents from our coaching team. We knew they would cede possession and look to hit us on the break. They've won 5 out of 6 games against the top 8 teams playing that way (and 0 out of 4 at home). So you play a flatter back four (with Clichy & Sagna who are better defensively and quicker) and bring them back 10 yards. You maybe even start Fernando in front of them for extra cover against the runs of Vardy and Mahrez. You don't have to worry about the space between our defence and midfield because it won't really be contested or exploited.

If a coach who is paid millions a year can't or won't see that then we're better off without him. Spurs will be more of the same on Sunday except their defence will be higher than Leicester's. They'll press us in midfield, will break at speed and we won't have the answer again.

Colin you are 100% spot on. Lets hope lazy YaYa is on the bench (or playing AM) and we actually play like we did against Sevilla - as you descibe above.

 

[kippaxblue76]

My hope v Spurs is that we nick a goal. I don't think they are a great football team at all, they are just mainly big & athletic. Like us, they have been nothing special against anyone half decent & are only where they are due to bullying shit teams.

Hopefully even Pellegrini will realise the importance of this game. We outpassed them easily last time & should do it again if we bother to turn up. Nick a goal & then make them come out. Then if we are sensible, they are fucked.

This of course requires the manager to accept we are actually fighting for the title & not playing a pre season friendly thus plan accordingly. But surely the penny has dropped even with him after Saturday ?

I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Dribble]

My hope v Spurs is that we nick a goal. I don't think they are a great football team at all, they are just mainly big & athletic. Like us, they have been nothing special against anyone half decent & are only where they are due to bullying shit teams.

Hopefully even Pellegrini will realise the importance of this game. We outpassed them easily last time & should do it again if we bother to turn up. Nick a goal & then make them come out. Then if we are sensible, they are fucked.

This of course requires the manager to accept we are actually fighting for the title & not playing a pre season friendly thus plan accordingly. But surely the penny has dropped even with him after Saturday ?

I wouldn't hold your breath mate.......

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Why just focus on the big games? We rarely set up well in ANY game.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

As Bill Shankly once said, "Football is a simple game made complicated by people who should know better". If our own manager had followed this line rather than make some inexplicable team selections then maybe we would be six points ahead of Leicester rather than six points behind.

 

[pavelsrnicek]

Did anyone see Keown on MOTD2 gushing over Wenger's preparation and plans to play Bournemouth? While I'm not sure you should be altering your game plan all the time, it looked like Wenger identified how Bournemouth would set up and where to attack them and it seemed to work.

Genuinely wonder do we work on a game plan on a match by match basis or is it a case our players aren't implementing a game plan correctly?

 

[dancity19]

From a tactical standpoint, no. From an individual player failure standpoint, yes.

We were the better team for 75 minutes. Yet they kept scoring. Again, uncalled offside, error by DeBryune. And 2 set pieces. That's how they scored the first 3. Prior to their 3rd goal, they'd had 3 shots on target, and breached us Twice. In that span, we had had 14 shots on target and breached their defense 8 times.

In the last 20 minutes while dejectedly chasing they created 6-7 more chances, 3 of which were point plank misses. But they game had been won by then.
But anyway.

If this had been a one off result I may be more inclined to agree with you. As it happens, it isn't - there is a more fundamental problem than a few iffy decisions in that game.

We weren't better for 75 minutes at all- we were better for 45. Then they looked like scoring every time they passed the half way line and our set up was all over the place. It's happened too many times for it to just be unfortunate, although I accept that this game was nowhere near as bad as Liverpool, Leicester, or Stoke.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Did anyone see Keown on MOTD2 gushing over Wenger's preparation and plans to play Bournemouth? While I'm not sure you should be altering your game plan all the time, it looked like Wenger identified how Bournemouth would set up and where to attack them and it seemed to work.

Genuinely wonder do we work on a game plan on a match by match basis or is it a case our players aren't implementing a game plan correctly?

We apparently had a game plan v Leicester which Pellegrini was telling the players to stick to, at half time. Therefore it was so good that it would work whether we were level or behind.

I would love to find out what it was because, watching the game, it was very difficult to figure out.

The interesting thing re Arsenal these days is they seem to have evolved from a possession at all costs team, with a total shit defence, to a counter attacking team, with a total shit defence.

 

[BobKowalski]

I will be totally honest.

Defensively we were poor and we conceded two soft goals at set pieces because we failed in doing the basics which has been a hallmark of insipid performances far too often this season.

We got hammered in mid field and to a man every one of our players were not interested in putting any sort of pressure on the opposition when they had the ball.

Basic stuff like letting Vardy run off our last man is just abysmal defending and it was good for us he didn't have his shooting boots on but in truth he didn't need them on Saturday.

If we do the same against Spurs we will get tonked pure and simple , they are faster than us , fitter than us , are passing better than us , creating more space for their players to run it than us and can keep possession better than we do so we will have to change things drastically from last Saturday if we are to avoid being embarrassed again.

The fact that both Leicester and Spurs do not and would not hold a candle to many sides in Europe and by any measure in the past couldn't compete with City sides of the past not only in one off games but over 38 games is a stark reminder of how far we have regressed.

You can blame the manager or the players or both or blame no one if you so choose but it doesn't change the fact that we are playing very average football this year and cannot cope with sides that press and are quick on the break.

As many have said we are one of the easiest sides to work out and play against and give sides an unnecessary advantage because we don't want to do what is required to stamp authority on games.

It requires work rate , desire , organisation , teamwork and pace to name but a few of the things needed at a higher level than your opponent and we don't have it in our squad at present.

Anybody who thinks our midfield did what they were supposed to do on Saturday are kidding themselves.

Not only they did defend poorly , they were nowhere near quick enough or position themselves well enough to assist or be on the end of crosses that might have given their keeper a moment of angst and that included Toure and Ferny.

Hard to disagree. Irrespective of the varous takes on our situation and where the fault lies - Pellers, the players, formations, injuries, etc - the fact remains we got beat 3-1 at home by Leicester and its not the first smacking we have received this season. We currently sit on the worst points total at this stage since 2010, not won back to back PL games since like whenever and being on the end of 3 or 4 goal drubbings have gone from a rarity to unsurprising.

It ain't working and I have little faith that we will figure out a way to make it work going forward.

Which is hell of a shame because this PL title is there for the taking.

 

[Walking on the blue moon]

If you defend a highish line badly - and we did (see PB's eloquent post on the subject) you put pressure on yourselves and quite simply this results in a higher chance of the teams set piece defending going tits up. By being bad in one part of the defensive game plan, it loads the dice against you elsewhere in the defensive game plan my making it more likely that you will make a mistake elsewhere. It's human nature and indeed a scientific fact.

This is indeed a scientific fact and I don't disagree on that. It's just that the application of the fact seems, at least to me, a bit inappropriate (i.e. not taking confounders into account). Leicester had 5 set-pieces awarded (3 less than us) so in comparison a high line did not really lead to a lot of set-pieces for them. What seems more worrying is our set-piece attack and defence. Every time a corner or a free-kick is awarded to us it seemed useless and the two times they are awarded a corner, they scored. So I think set-pieces is a more urgent weakness to be addressed as it is a more direct cause. As for high line defence, you've convinced me that it did contribute to our mistakes elseware, though not much.:) The benefit and necessity of having a high line in possession still outweighed the disadvantage of our defence receiving more pressure, which is contributed by many other factors as well. There may be cases in which abandoning a high line seems a better choice, but still I feel against more than half of PL teams, it is beneficial overall.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

This is indeed a scientific fact and I don't disagree on that. It's just that the application of the fact seems, at least to me, a bit inappropriate (i.e. not taking confounders into account). Leicester had 5 set-pieces awarded (3 less than us) so in comparison a high line did not really lead to a lot of set-pieces for them. What seems more worrying is our set-piece attack and defence. Every time a corner or a free-kick is awarded to us it seemed useless and the two times they are awarded a corner, they scored. So I think set-pieces is a more urgent weakness to be addressed as it is a more direct cause. As for high line defence, you've convinced me that it did contribute to our mistakes elseware, though not much.:) The benefit and necessity of having a high line in possession still outweighed the disadvantage of our defence receiving more pressure, which is contributed by many other factors as well. There may be cases in which abandoning a high line seems a better choice, but still I feel against more than half of PL teams, it is beneficial overall.

Our set pieces, both offensively and defensively, need a lot of work as they're awful. There was at least one occasion where we had a free kick around the half-way line. Ten passes later and we still hadn't got the ball in Leicester's half.

 

[Walking on the blue moon]

you sit there happy clapping till the season draws to a close and be content with this great squad we have wasting chances to perform while throwing away what could of been golden opportunities to win more silverware.

I don't mean that the manager and players need not do anything to improve the results, but it's just that in difficult times which is caused by the culmination of injuries and mistakes in training regime and lack of effective alternate plans, in times when the team is rather low in morale and confidence, it is more constructive to show our support rather than asking them to be sacked or acting as if the season is already lost, which would causemore instability to the club and an even larger dent to our trophy hopes.