Our inability to set up properly for big games

[Newman Noggs]

There was at least one occasion where we had a free kick around the half-way line. Ten passes later and we still hadn't got the ball in Leicester's half.

The same applies when we have kick off.

 

[BobKowalski]

This is indeed a scientific fact and I don't disagree on that. It's just that the application of the fact seems, at least to me, a bit inappropriate (i.e. not taking confounders into account). Leicester had 5 set-pieces awarded (3 less than us) so in comparison a high line did not really lead to a lot of set-pieces for them. What seems more worrying is our set-piece attack and defence. Every time a corner or a free-kick is awarded to us it seemed useless and the two times they are awarded a corner, they scored. So I think set-pieces is a more urgent weakness to be addressed as it is a more direct cause. As for high line defence, you've convinced me that it did contribute to our mistakes elseware, though not much.:) The benefit and necessity of having a high line in possession still outweighed the disadvantage of our defence receiving more pressure, which is contributed by many other factors as well. There may be cases in which abandoning a high line seems a better choice, but still I feel against more than half of PL teams, it is beneficial overall.

This may be wrong but I recall hearing on a commentary or SSN that we had scored the most goals from corners this season - ok checked the stats for this season and we are second with Southampton on 10 goals from set pieces behind Spurs with 12...which is somewhat depressing news given the game with Spurs next :)

 

[Walking on the blue moon]

This may be wrong but I recall hearing on a commentary or SSN that we had scored the most goals from corners this season - ok checked the stats for this season and we are second with Southampton on 10 goals from set pieces behind Spurs with 12...which is somewhat depressing news given the game with Spurs next :)

I think most of those are in the period which we were really good, but not a lot seems December. It is as if we revert back to last season. Hope they really work on it this week.:)

 

[Father Paul]

My only hope for Spurs is that the injury to Silva will force him to pick a midfield that will be much more industrious and push Yaya further forward. At least if we can press them in midfield then the high line might not be exposed quite as badly. Then again I thought that when Navas got injured but he still managed to shuffle things around so that he could shoe horn Yaya into the middle. The more I think about the team he put out and where on the pitch he had particular players operating, the more insane it looks considering he must have known exactly what Leicester were going to do.

The only place YAYA Toure should be on Sunday is sitting on the bench. Bring him on for the last 30 mins. If he starts I can't see us getting anything out of the game to be honest.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

I don't mean that the manager and players need not do anything to improve the results, but it's just that in difficult times which is caused by the culmination of injuries and mistakes in training regime and lack of effective alternate plans, in times when the team is rather low in morale and confidence, it is more constructive to show our support rather than asking them to be sacked or acting as if the season is already lost, which would causemore instability to the club and an even larger dent to our trophy hopes.

i do show my support, i have done since 1958 (GIVE ME A MEDAL) ffs, i go home and away, i dont boo, i do even sometime sing pelligrini`s name, not because i think he`s a great manager but because i want to give my backing on the pitch to the team, the players and the club. and yes we have had more than our share of injuries.

but on here if anywhere is the place to utter my word of contempt for a nice man who doesnt seem to have a fucking scoobie when setting a team up or with team select which damages the club i love.


if this idiot of a manager plays kolarov and demichelis instead of clichy and sagna and yaya as a d/m for protection we are in for another lesson against spurs.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I don't think we set up well for many games, its just ability that carries us through in a lot of them. If its not that then it is concentration or lack of it from the players.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think most of those are in the period which we were really good, but not a lot seems December. It is as if we revert back to last season. Hope they really work on it this week.:)

Probably. I do recall thinking when I heard that info was how shite must everyone else be at corners.

Its the defensive issues that are killing me. The throw in goal we conceded at WHU sent me into meltdown. That and conceding goals whilst mentally we are in the tunnel or picking the HT orange out of our teeth is unnacceptable. Next time it happens I want Pellers to march on the field and smack someone in the mouth. Or a Mancini harangue consisting of 'fuck you', 'fuck you' and lots of finger pointing.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

The only place YAYA Toure should be on Sunday is sitting on the bench. Bring him on for the last 30 mins. If he starts I can't see us getting anything out of the game to be honest.

Maybe but that is unlikely to happen, when has the manager ever benched him for a big match? It can't be often, if ever. So working on that basis having him further up field where his defending (lack of) isn't quite the same issue is progress. Plus as disappointing as Yaya has been, he is still useful in possession and is still more than capable of hurting the opposition in and around their box.

 

[Walking on the blue moon]

The high defensive line absolutely requires the midfield and forwards (plus the full backs) to pressure the opposition midfield and defence. That prevents them having time on the ball and getting it to their forwards. But we didn't do that and their midfield were able to play the ball with ease.

But even playing a high-line against Leicester was utterly stupid and shows up the complete disregard for thinking about our opponents from our coaching team. We knew they would cede possession and look to hit us on the break. They've won 5 out of 6 games against the top 8 teams playing that way (and 0 out of 4 at home). So you play a flatter back four (with Clichy & Sagna who are better defensively and quicker) and bring them back 10 yards. You maybe even start Fernando in front of them for extra cover against the runs of Vardy and Mahrez. You don't have to worry about the space between our defence and midfield because it won't really be contested or exploited.

If a coach who is paid millions a year can't or won't see that then we're better off without him. Spurs will be more of the same on Sunday except their defence will be higher than Leicester's. They'll press us in midfield, will break at speed and we won't have the answer again.

Well said!

Still disagree on the necessity of playing a high-line against Leicester though. Unless we cede possession, we can't abandon the high line. And if I remembered correctly, all teams who won or drew against Leicester employed a high-line. So maybe the problem lies in specific instructions but not the principle itself?

Don't know what he tactics he would employ at Spurs, but if he does employ the high line again, let's hope he get the little tweaks here and there correct and that the players can follow his instructions perfectly.

 

[Walking on the blue moon]

Probably. I do recall thinking when I heard that info was how shite must everyone else be at corners.

Its the defensive issues that are killing me. The throw in goal we conceded at WHU sent me into meltdown. That and conceding goals whilst mentally we are in the tunnel or picking the HT orange out of our teeth is unnacceptable. Next time it happens I want Pellers to march on the field and smack someone in the mouth. Or a Mancini harangue consisting of 'fuck you', 'fuck you' and lots of finger pointing.

Haha:D

If Pellers starts smacking someone in the mouth publicly, maybe it's Mancini impersonating him? Privately I think he must be thinking 'fuck you', 'fuck you' and lots of finger pointing too. Once in last Saturday's match I thought he must have constipation.

 

[Proy]

Tactically it is all wrong. Some really simple decisions that we get wrong every single time, and that helps explain why we have yet to beat a top 6 team.

Just a few examples and this is just Leicster

Playing Delph on the left
Wrong choice of full backs
Somehow it was a 4-4-2 with 5 midfielders?
Pressing as we did

I could go on. All opinion of course but there is a lot of naivety in the choices he makes. Some really simple things but most of all not having the courtesy of showing the other team any respect by adapting your own tactics.

 

[warringtonblue]

Our set pieces, both offensively and defensively, need a lot of work as they're awful. There was at least one occasion where we had a free kick around the half-way line. Ten passes later and we still hadn't got the ball in Leicester's half.

I think Huth won nearly every header from a corner both in attack and in defence

 

[Neville Kneville]

I think Huth won nearly every header from a corner both in attack and in defence

We allowed Sunderland's best header of the ball a free header, between both our centre backs.

Irrespective of what Pellegrini says, I don't understand why one of our cbs or better aerial players don't recognise the threat or the effectiveness at either end, & just take the responsibility to put that player out of the equation. Just stop him from getting a contact on the ball, block him whatever. They don'f have to jump above him, just prevent him from getting a decent contact. It's elementary stuff. This has been a problem with our lesser cbs for years, from Boateng through Savic, Nastasic, now Otamendi. Just weak against powerful players.

Fucking Rooney was marking John Terry at corners yesterday & did a betrer job of it than any of those lot would. It's not good enough.

 

[cleavers]

You make some interesting points but to take the one about the high defensive line. The point of that is to compress the midfield, so that you can press the opponents high up the field. We usually play with our defensive line about 15-20 yards in front of the 18-yard box but what we don't do is have our midfield close enough to that line to make life difficult for our opponents. Our midfield, particularly players like Silva and Toure, simply don't work hard enough closing opposition players down meaning the defenders are too often exposed to opposition players coming at them, often with with equal numbers or even numerical superiority. We may have been playing a high defensive line on Saturday but Kante and Drinkwater had the run of midfield and were first to every ball. If we's had bodies in the right positions who were prepared to work as hard as those two, we'd have been fine.

Excellent analysis of what was wrong on Saturday, add to that Delph out wide, and Fernandhino doing the job of three, its little wonder our midfield was so poor, and why the game was so pathetically lost. For me though a lot of that boils down to a complete lack of organistation, which was quite evident.

Every attack we had was 3 or 4, against 8 or 9, every attack they had, was 4 or 5 against 4 or 5, that shouldn't be happening with the quality we had out, even with our current injury list.

 

[Jazzman]

Excellent analysis of what was wrong on Saturday, add to that Delph out wide, and Fernandhino doing the job of three, its little wonder our midfield was so poor, and why the game was so pathetically lost. For me though a lot of that boils down to a complete lack of organistation, which was quite evident.

Every attack we had was 3 or 4, against 8 or 9, every attack they had, was 4 or 5 against 4 or 5, that shouldn't be happening with the quality we had out, even with our current injury list.

That's right. So why is this? Are the players lazy or don't have a clue of where they are supposed to be on the field?

 

[cleavers]

That's right. So why is this? Are the players lazy or don't have a clue of where they are supposed to be on the field?

Well on Saturday it looked like a mixture of both, but brought on by not knowing where they were supposed to be, so some just gave up, pretty unforgivable to me, on both counts.

 

[Jazzman]

Well on Saturday it looked like a mixture of both, but brought on by not knowing where they were supposed to be, so some just gave up, pretty unforgivable to me, on both counts.

I think, and hope, that our players are in for a bit of a culture chock when Pep arrives and starts to actually demand hard work and tactical behavior from them. From what I have seen here in Germany Pep is not very tolerant towards laziness and sloppiness.
Under Pellegrini the team seem to be in a sloppy trot where they just do the minimum. Not much of a plan, not much of fire in the belly, and not many signs that the manager really cares a lot. In fact Pellegrini's (lack off) attitude in the dug out seems to be reflected by the players attitude on the pitch.

 

[cleavers]

In fact Pellegrini's (lack off) attitude in the dug out seems to be reflected by the players attitude on the pitch.

While I agree with the rest of your post, I don't agree with this. Over the years I've seen plenty of managers who showed passion on the sidelines, but their teams were f**King clueless, some at City.

Passion on the sidelines might look good to supporters, but players don't buy into it.

I still have nightmares about when Pearce was manager, with his constant coaching from the side.

The wide players must have been grateful or shitting themselves at half time when we changed round, because they knew they were either getting a break from his constant yelling, or they knew it was their turn next. Full of passion, but a shit manager nonetheless.

 

[Dax777]

So sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la" are you?
Thank goodness Pep takes Sports Phycology seriously and will make sure our players are properly conditioned to reduce the impact of bad events in one area of the game on other areas.
Oh read his books by the way if you want evidence for that. Getting players heads focused on playing as a team is just about his number one priority.

I ignored your argument because it was an irrelevant point. Smart sounding, but irrelevant none the less.

It's irrelevant because Stress was not the issue in contention. The claim was about what was the Cause in Fact of the goals. Not whether you could make a colorable argument about some tenous proximate cause. Which by the way if we took the argument to its outer to its limits, it could easily be shown that you couldnt prove a direct causal relationship BTW the goals and a high line. If nothing else we had already conceded the initial set piece goal before we ever moved our back line up.

But it was such a pointless exercise that I chose not bite and derail the thread.

So don't mistake my sidestepping the irrelevant for acquiescing.

And yes, I hope Pep brings all his sport psychology know-how to the table for us. But this has no relationship to whether a supposed high line caused the goals we conceded in a particular match.

 

[Manc in London]

Excellent analysis of what was wrong on Saturday, add to that Delph out wide, and Fernandhino doing the job of three, its little wonder our midfield was so poor, and why the game was so pathetically lost. For me though a lot of that boils down to a complete lack of organistation, which was quite evident.

Every attack we had was 3 or 4, against 8 or 9, every attack they had, was 4 or 5 against 4 or 5, that shouldn't be happening with the quality we had out, even with our current injury list.

I have been saying something similar for a while. No matter where the ball is we are more often than out numbered. It's simply not good enough.

Until we get some more fit bodies on the pitch, I would rather we went for a solid set-up (that DOES NOT mean Delph on the wing) and just try to nick some goals. If Yaya is to play, it would be good to see him stay deep next to Delph, while giving Fernandinho the opportunity to go forward. At least if he goes forward we know he is able to run backwards towards his goal too. Plus he is the kind of player who will not venture too far forward if we are losing the battle in the middle.