Our owners - next move?

[Citizen in Pakistan]

Don't they hate us enough for us to be playing in there hands by suggestions of saying fuck u to the ffp and over spend?
The question of ffp won't be coming into play from next season onwards and then we can spend the way we fuckin like,
The thing which disappoints me though is run of bad games and ppl start doubting everything about the club,aren't we still the champions of England?we've bin bin bad in Europe and we haven't played well this season,all these things are accepted but doubting the clubs ambitions is not fair considering the way we've progressed in last 6 six years,we don't only have trophies to show for it but also financialy city is becoming a top top brand and our revenues show that,in bad times just be patient I,ll suggest

 

[g180aj]

Apologies, I originally posted the below in the Pellegrini thread but it's maybe more a wider question for our owners?

A perfect storm has been contrived, and we've simply not been able to wing it.

We've been doing it since the day that ball left Aguero's foot.

Due to the restrictions imposed on the club by UEFA, the owners thought we could get away with treading water, adding family staples to the small supply of fine foods we had previously bought.

Baked beans taste fine and dandy, every now and again. What they don't taste great with is being slopped on the same plate as caviar.

We have put together an ill-conceived menu for the last 24 months and much as I love our owner and chairman for everything they have done so far, I would now urge them to take stock of what they really want out of this association?

If it is to win friends and influence people, they are shit out of luck. They have enabled Manchester City, of previous ridicule, to bring out the very worst of British and European traits - envy and spite of someone else's success.

They have allowed their eye to be taken off the ball, trying to jump through hoops, in the hope of presenting a more acceptable, watered-down threat to the so-called establishment of the game.

Mancini, for all his faults, and he had many, knew that a team that had come from nowhere, still needed to spend on the very best, however vulgar it may be perceived by people who will never find City acceptable, regardless of what we do off the pitch.

Mancini managed his final season with one hand tied behind his back and cut his throat with the other one.

I could not believe the team when it was announced last night, although was relieved to see Pellegrini make the correct decisions at half time in replacing the appalling Jovetic and Navas, in terms of addressing an extra man in the middle and also trying to introduce Nasri's ball retention.

But to then undo that thought process by taking off Fernando pretty much summed up the manager's state of confusion this season. He is wasting substitutions because he is simply not setting the team up with the correct platform from the outset.

I stand by what I observed on Sunday, the removal of Milner against United was tactical naivety in the extreme.

Sadly, results dictate, but this current group of 'over-ripe' players won't allow me to be fooled for a second time, with or without David Silva, they should be good enough to beat the majority of cannon-fodder.

Pellegrini, if he can somehow make it through to January, needs a frank discussion with Khaldoon and Begirsitain. He should not be made the patsy for players such as Clichy, Fernandinho, Dzeko, Nasri and Jovetic.

Perhaps Pellegrini does deserve the absolute backing from Abu Dhabi to address the weaknesses in this squad, regardless of cost?

I'm on the fence if Manuel has it in him, but the solution remains the same, somebody needs to decide if they want City to wither on the vine, or go again, regardless of the consequences.

I think most blues would accept the trade-off being expelled from Champions League football for a year if the result is a couple of hundred million (and that's what it will take) to set a City team up for the next five-year cycle.

You can only be a nice guy for so long, or it starts to stink of weakness.


1) Should we spend without fear of UEFA to rebuild?

2) Should Pellegrini be given the chance to manage those players?

3) If City is supposedly a PR exercise for Abu Dhabi, is it in danger of going tits-up?

Most sense I've heard in a long time, I do have to be a little fairer on Navas though in saying as far as I could see the best player on the pitch last night was the cska left back.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Just sack the manager. Its not rocket science.

Naive in the extreme

Naivity is burying your head in the sand mate.
It may be to you Nip but do you or anyone on this board actually think our CEO,Chairman,Owner are going to be happy with this champions league campaign. He is a gonner whatever we do this season and if anyone wants a small wager that he wont be manager next season then bring it on.
It has been an unmitigating disaster it really has.

I agree he won't be here next season.

Being this wank in the CL will 100% not be tolerated by the owner.

I'd be all over simeone if it was up to me. The main faces of ancelotti, guardiola and mourinho won't be available.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Very interesting point, MA.

But looking at English talent, whilst I agree it raises our standing at home, does not neccessarily address our problems in Europe: don't forget, ALL English teams are doing poorly in Europe, despite being some of the most expensively assembled teams. There's a difference between the way the Premier League is played and other leagues, and you could even see it in games like last night.

With regards Europe, it's a different conversation. We simply don't have enough of the right characteristics. WE have a squad that is neither Mancini's nor Pellegrini's - and both men played very different brands of football. We're stuck between stations and it needs to be addressed in the next couple of windows.

So why were we so excellent last year?

Prem and cup double. Record number of goals scored. 15 points in the CL group.

Not much wrong with the ability in our squad. It's the application of this ability which is the problem.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Whatever our owners next move is I trust it will be not to panic. Thats our job.

Actually we know what the next move will be. Grow the business on and off the pitch. You just have to look at what it was 5 years ago and where it is now and then project forward. It will not involve gutting the current squad. Chucking out half the squad is just fan talk.

Will repeat what I said in another thread:

This squad is good enough to compete in Europe. It has been good enough to compete in Europe for the past 4 years. Yes we have been hindered by FFP but PSG have been hit with the same FFP restrictions and they still compete. We are not talking about winning the CL we are talking about competing. We are talking about beating teams like CSKA Moscow which we can do right now and did so 12 months ago. We are not asking for much. Even our owners are not asking for the impossible. Just compete.

Compete. So why don't we compete? Last night we could have played whatever formation you liked and probably still lost. Its in their heads. For starters the players have so little faith in the way they prepare and set up for CL games we are pretty much beat before we get on the pitch. You can bring in a Di Maria or whoever right now and we would still be awful just as ManU were fairly awful on Sunday because for a lot of their players beating us is the impossible dream. Right now competing in the CL is the impossible dream. Nothing to do with pace, or formations. Right now its about confidence. Even Kompany has now got it into his head its about refs and conspiracies and once you start the match believing that well guess what? It will happen.

Confidence and belief allows you to think faster, move the ball faster, pass with better precision and so on. How many times did we play some aimless, pointless ball across field to god knows who? Clichy, Zabs, Fernando. Jovetic were bedevilled with so much indecision and hesitancy it was frightening.

Pellers said last night he had no idea why the team cannot play CL football. Unfortunately for Pellers having no idea isn't really an option. What Pellers has to do is instil the mentality necessary to do well in the CL. We have it in the PL because Mancini put it there. We have an excellent PL winning machine which took a season or two to build. Now Pellers has to do the same in the CL. If he doesn't then someone else will be employed to do so.

Bob, I've often argued the opposite of your theory that there's a mental problem within the squad with regards the CL, however I'm rapidly coming round to your way of thinking.

To a greater or lesser extent I think you're right that the squad is good enough to compete in Europe and we've been turned over by too many nothing sides under both Pellegrini and Mancini for it to be purely a managerial problem. That's not to say that they both haven't made mistakes but at the root of it, there's a deeper malaise at play.

For me the reason I believe the squad will be broken up next summer and why i think it's necessary is because collectively the problem has grown to such an extent that the only resolution left is to look at rebuilding. We've had different managers with different styles of management and the problem in Europe has remained the same.

This.

It isn't the manger(s) it's the players.

 

[hilts]

Maybe instead of spunking another few hundred million pounds to try and beat the might ajax. cska's of this world, maybe we should get a decent manager, let him build a squad and play in the way he see's fit to win football matches, the rags have just gone on a huge spending spree signing big names, look how balanced and thought out there team is

Sack Pellegrini, give Patrick the job til summer and make it very clear to the players big changes will happen in the summer and they have till then to show if they want to be part of it

 

[OB1]

Whatever our owners next move is I trust it will be not to panic. Thats our job.

Actually we know what the next move will be. Grow the business on and off the pitch. You just have to look at what it was 5 years ago and where it is now and then project forward. It will not involve gutting the current squad. Chucking out half the squad is just fan talk.

Will repeat what I said in another thread:

This squad is good enough to compete in Europe. It has been good enough to compete in Europe for the past 4 years. Yes we have been hindered by FFP but PSG have been hit with the same FFP restrictions and they still compete. We are not talking about winning the CL we are talking about competing. We are talking about beating teams like CSKA Moscow which we can do right now and did so 12 months ago. We are not asking for much. Even our owners are not asking for the impossible. Just compete.

Compete. So why don't we compete? Last night we could have played whatever formation you liked and probably still lost. Its in their heads. For starters the players have so little faith in the way they prepare and set up for CL games we are pretty much beat before we get on the pitch. You can bring in a Di Maria or whoever right now and we would still be awful just as ManU were fairly awful on Sunday because for a lot of their players beating us is the impossible dream. Right now competing in the CL is the impossible dream. Nothing to do with pace, or formations. Right now its about confidence. Even Kompany has now got it into his head its about refs and conspiracies and once you start the match believing that well guess what? It will happen.

Confidence and belief allows you to think faster, move the ball faster, pass with better precision and so on. How many times did we play some aimless, pointless ball across field to god knows who? Clichy, Zabs, Fernando. Jovetic were bedevilled with so much indecision and hesitancy it was frightening.

Pellers said last night he had no idea why the team cannot play CL football. Unfortunately for Pellers having no idea isn't really an option. What Pellers has to do is instil the mentality necessary to do well in the CL. We have it in the PL because Mancini put it there. We have an excellent PL winning machine which took a season or two to build. Now Pellers has to do the same in the CL. If he doesn't then someone else will be employed to do so.

Bob, I've often argued the opposite of your theory that there's a mental problem within the squad with regards the CL, however I'm rapidly coming round to your way of thinking.

To a greater or lesser extent I think you're right that the squad is good enough to compete in Europe and we've been turned over by too many nothing sides under both Pellegrini and Mancini for it to be purely a managerial problem. That's not to say that they both haven't made mistakes but at the root of it, there's a deeper malaise at play.

For me the reason I believe the squad will be broken up next summer and why i think it's necessary is because collectively the problem has grown to such an extent that the only resolution left is to look at rebuilding. We've had different managers with different styles of management and the problem in Europe has remained the same.

I have long worried over the mentality of the squad and you can do things about it with the current players - I posted something in the Pellegrini thread on the topic -but I think personnel changes in the squad have to be part of the solution. We also need some changes in the squad to add technical attributes that will help in Europe. Therefore, I do think there will be some serious surgery to the squad; whether it counts as a gutting - which Bob thinks won't happen is something he'd have to comment on. Obviously there are all sorts of limitations on changes that you can make to playing personnel: this is not one of those computer games. Also, we have players who some would love to see the back and have their faults but who may well shine more if surrounded by more players of the quality of our core of key players, Nasri would be an example of the former, IMO. But there are enough players e.g the likes Jovetic, Clichy, Dzeko that could be replaced in order to raise the squad's game.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Whatever our owners next move is I trust it will be not to panic. Thats our job.

Actually we know what the next move will be. Grow the business on and off the pitch. You just have to look at what it was 5 years ago and where it is now and then project forward. It will not involve gutting the current squad. Chucking out half the squad is just fan talk.

Will repeat what I said in another thread:

This squad is good enough to compete in Europe. It has been good enough to compete in Europe for the past 4 years. Yes we have been hindered by FFP but PSG have been hit with the same FFP restrictions and they still compete. We are not talking about winning the CL we are talking about competing. We are talking about beating teams like CSKA Moscow which we can do right now and did so 12 months ago. We are not asking for much. Even our owners are not asking for the impossible. Just compete.

Compete. So why don't we compete? Last night we could have played whatever formation you liked and probably still lost. Its in their heads. For starters the players have so little faith in the way they prepare and set up for CL games we are pretty much beat before we get on the pitch. You can bring in a Di Maria or whoever right now and we would still be awful just as ManU were fairly awful on Sunday because for a lot of their players beating us is the impossible dream. Right now competing in the CL is the impossible dream. Nothing to do with pace, or formations. Right now its about confidence. Even Kompany has now got it into his head its about refs and conspiracies and once you start the match believing that well guess what? It will happen.

Confidence and belief allows you to think faster, move the ball faster, pass with better precision and so on. How many times did we play some aimless, pointless ball across field to god knows who? Clichy, Zabs, Fernando. Jovetic were bedevilled with so much indecision and hesitancy it was frightening.

Pellers said last night he had no idea why the team cannot play CL football. Unfortunately for Pellers having no idea isn't really an option. What Pellers has to do is instil the mentality necessary to do well in the CL. We have it in the PL because Mancini put it there. We have an excellent PL winning machine which took a season or two to build. Now Pellers has to do the same in the CL. If he doesn't then someone else will be employed to do so.

Bob, I've often argued the opposite of your theory that there's a mental problem within the squad with regards the CL, however I'm rapidly coming round to your way of thinking.

To a greater or lesser extent I think you're right that the squad is good enough to compete in Europe and we've been turned over by too many nothing sides under both Pellegrini and Mancini for it to be purely a managerial problem. That's not to say that they both haven't made mistakes but at the root of it, there's a deeper malaise at play.

For me the reason I believe the squad will be broken up next summer and why i think it's necessary is because collectively the problem has grown to such an extent that the only resolution left is to look at rebuilding. We've had different managers with different styles of management and the problem in Europe has remained the same.

I have long worried over the mentality of the squad and you can do things about it with the current players - I posted something in the Pellegrini thread on the topic -but I think personnel changes in the squad have to be part of the solution. We also need some changes in the squad to add technical attributes that will help in Europe. Therefore, I do think there will be some serious surgery to the squad; whether it counts as a gutting - which Bob thinks won't happen is something he'd have to comment on. Obviously there are all sorts of limitations on changes that you can make to playing personnel: this is not one of those computer games. Also, we have players who some would love to see the back and have their faults but who may well shine more if surrounded by more players of the quality of our core of key players, Nasri would be an example of the former, IMO. But there are enough players e.g the likes Jovetic, Clichy, Dzeko that could be replaced in order to raise the squad's game.

I'm still not convinced by the mentality argument, or at least not in isolation. For me European football, in addition to superior overall technique, is all about pace and mobility. We can't press, we can't counterattack, and we can't get back and cover, all virtual pre-requisites in the CL. Pellegrini's tactical errors haven't helped, but he is the second of two very different, highly regarded managers, to have failed with what is ostensibly the same group of players. I don't think Pep, Klopp or Simeone would fare any different with this squad. It needs a big overhaul, and come the summer I'd shunt Toure, Jovetic, Clichy, Dzeko, Fernando and Sagna out the door, and I'd be having a good think about Nasri, Navas and even Mangala (very early days I know, but I'm not convinced he is anything other than a quicker version of Lescott at the moment) joining them.

 

[Marvin]

Dortmund and Bayern and Napoli were about pace and intensity and there's an argument to say that we don't come across that every week. but we do see it in games against Liverpool last season. Or Utd this. We cope then.

What characterises City's flops in Europe is not not being able to cope with high intensity football, but a continual shooting ourselves in the foot by conceding ridiculous goals.....see yesterday. Remember Ajax, 2-0 down from corners in minutes

Mancini was hounded out by people saying he's tactically inept in Europe. I argued against that at the time.

It maybe a combination of a weakened squad, doubt, bad luck, but mentality is a significant component.

I haven't come across any credible alternative arguments

 

[lasereyes]

Bob, I've often argued the opposite of your theory that there's a mental problem within the squad with regards the CL, however I'm rapidly coming round to your way of thinking.

To a greater or lesser extent I think you're right that the squad is good enough to compete in Europe and we've been turned over by too many nothing sides under both Pellegrini and Mancini for it to be purely a managerial problem. That's not to say that they both haven't made mistakes but at the root of it, there's a deeper malaise at play.

For me the reason I believe the squad will be broken up next summer and why i think it's necessary is because collectively the problem has grown to such an extent that the only resolution left is to look at rebuilding. We've had different managers with different styles of management and the problem in Europe has remained the same.

I have long worried over the mentality of the squad and you can do things about it with the current players - I posted something in the Pellegrini thread on the topic -but I think personnel changes in the squad have to be part of the solution. We also need some changes in the squad to add technical attributes that will help in Europe. Therefore, I do think there will be some serious surgery to the squad; whether it counts as a gutting - which Bob thinks won't happen is something he'd have to comment on. Obviously there are all sorts of limitations on changes that you can make to playing personnel: this is not one of those computer games. Also, we have players who some would love to see the back and have their faults but who may well shine more if surrounded by more players of the quality of our core of key players, Nasri would be an example of the former, IMO. But there are enough players e.g the likes Jovetic, Clichy, Dzeko that could be replaced in order to raise the squad's game.

I'm still not convinced by the mentality argument, or at least not in isolation. For me European football, in addition to superior overall technique, is all about pace and mobility. We can't press, we can't counterattack, and we can't get back and cover, all virtual pre-requisites in the CL. Pellegrini's tactical errors haven't helped, but he is the second of two very different, highly regarded managers, to have failed with what is ostensibly the same group of players. I don't think Pep, Klopp or Simeone would fare any different with this squad. It needs a big overhaul, and come the summer I'd shunt Toure, Jovetic, Clichy, Dzeko, Fernando and Sagna out the door, and I'd be having a good think about Nasri, Navas and even Mangala (very early days I know, but I'm not convinced he is anything other than a quicker version of Lescott at the moment) joining them.

This is one of the most extreme of a serious of manic posts. If you dump half of our squad in one go, who do you think we will get in return? It will quickly become clear we are having a firesale and we will get nothing but rock-bottom offers for the player, and be forced to pay hugely inflated sums for moderate replacements (if those in question even want to join us).

To me it is still way too early to panic. The bald facts are we were totally hamstrung by FFP, have suffered several injuries, and had abjectly awful refereeing in several key matches. Yet we are still in a reasonable position in the league. At the very minimum MP must be allowed to do what was accorded to Mancini - to defend the title for a full season. Then let's pass judgment.

This forum probably looked somewhat similar to now about a year ago when we were in 8th place with 4 losses in our first 12 games.