Mister Appointment said:adrianr said:Good post but the question of whether Pellegrini is the right man to rebuild the squad is the wrong one, given that it should be Txiki who is in charge of that anyway, the whole point being we're not tied to a certain set of players only working under a certain manager.
It's also another reason people shouldn't be so quick to criticise Pellegrini or Mancini, the latter as you rightly point out knew this team still needed huge investment to make proper inroads in Europe. Say what you like about what a nasty man he was, he bloody well knew his football. Pellegrini may be happier to get on with what he's been given, but also as you say, shouldn't be made the patsy for sub-par players incapable or unwilling to play like professional footballers.
That in mind,
1) I was under the impression given our new financial standing that this would no longer be an issue. We should be able to spend plenty to fix the squad without pissing everyone off, but ultimate if the choice is a world class football team or delaying UEFA coming up with a new arbitrary set of rules to punish us by, I'd suggest the former is the way to go.
2) Of course. The coaches you could say are a definitive cut above Pellegrini you can count on one hand - The man contrary to more recent belief is not an idiot. I'd love to see Pep here, just to see if the forum would still demand him out at the first sign of trouble, because rest assured no-one is going to come in and win everything all the time. There's a niggling worry that in Mancini and Pellegrini we've still never had a 'Tier 1' manager like Pep or Ancelotti, but even they will fall foul if they're given players who won't try. They're football managers, not miracle workers.
3) They have to decide who's opinion is more important, the establishment or the public. Because in trying to appease the establishment you can be damn sure we're the European laughing stock of the public. People were talking before our group how it was daft that the English champions were in with the German champions, and yet here we are on course to finish bottom of the group again, all because we tried to keep a few wannabe dictators happy by slipping over the draw bridge before it was raised. We should have been pushing for proper fairness from the start, not hoping they would let us into the gang and we could stick two fingers up to everyone else.
I feel much saner and much better reading posts like this.
Good to see in amongst the usual knee jerk crap there's a lot of well thought out and rational responses to what the future holds and requires.
On point 3, there's something which I think we cannot ignore. Look at what simply having Lampard play a few games did for our media coverage. The post Chelsea love in was unbelievable. It's my firm belief that to win hearts and minds, we need the next crop of ENGLISH talent in our squad. It's a reality which United and Chelsea have been aware of and very good at for a decade know. Understanding that that English core helps shape the narrative. We really need that. Barkley, Clyne, Ward Prose, even Rodriquez. All of them I'd take in a heartbeat and let Toure, Sagna, Jovetic, and Navas go.
Bayern do it with German players. Barca/Madrid with Spanish players. We let Luke Shaw go to the rags, Chambers to Arsenal. We need to look at this.
Malty said:Need to go back to our previous successful business strategy of targeting the Worlds best players, the cream of the crop - with United not in Europe City is the more appealing choice in Manchester.
Being popular doesn't win trophies - even Barca have their detractors..
Chelsea have 2 English players. And they are not doing too badly. Its just that we need good players regardless of nationality. Certainly not English, because they are not good enough for a start.St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:Mister Appointment said:adrianr said:Good post but the question of whether Pellegrini is the right man to rebuild the squad is the wrong one, given that it should be Txiki who is in charge of that anyway, the whole point being we're not tied to a certain set of players only working under a certain manager.
It's also another reason people shouldn't be so quick to criticise Pellegrini or Mancini, the latter as you rightly point out knew this team still needed huge investment to make proper inroads in Europe. Say what you like about what a nasty man he was, he bloody well knew his football. Pellegrini may be happier to get on with what he's been given, but also as you say, shouldn't be made the patsy for sub-par players incapable or unwilling to play like professional footballers.
That in mind,
1) I was under the impression given our new financial standing that this would no longer be an issue. We should be able to spend plenty to fix the squad without pissing everyone off, but ultimate if the choice is a world class football team or delaying UEFA coming up with a new arbitrary set of rules to punish us by, I'd suggest the former is the way to go.
2) Of course. The coaches you could say are a definitive cut above Pellegrini you can count on one hand - The man contrary to more recent belief is not an idiot. I'd love to see Pep here, just to see if the forum would still demand him out at the first sign of trouble, because rest assured no-one is going to come in and win everything all the time. There's a niggling worry that in Mancini and Pellegrini we've still never had a 'Tier 1' manager like Pep or Ancelotti, but even they will fall foul if they're given players who won't try. They're football managers, not miracle workers.
3) They have to decide who's opinion is more important, the establishment or the public. Because in trying to appease the establishment you can be damn sure we're the European laughing stock of the public. People were talking before our group how it was daft that the English champions were in with the German champions, and yet here we are on course to finish bottom of the group again, all because we tried to keep a few wannabe dictators happy by slipping over the draw bridge before it was raised. We should have been pushing for proper fairness from the start, not hoping they would let us into the gang and we could stick two fingers up to everyone else.
I feel much saner and much better reading posts like this.
Good to see in amongst the usual knee jerk crap there's a lot of well thought out and rational responses to what the future holds and requires.
On point 3, there's something which I think we cannot ignore. Look at what simply having Lampard play a few games did for our media coverage. The post Chelsea love in was unbelievable. It's my firm belief that to win hearts and minds, we need the next crop of ENGLISH talent in our squad. It's a reality which United and Chelsea have been aware of and very good at for a decade know. Understanding that that English core helps shape the narrative. We really need that. Barkley, Clyne, Ward Prose, even Rodriquez. All of them I'd take in a heartbeat and let Toure, Sagna, Jovetic, and Navas go.
Bayern do it with German players. Barca/Madrid with Spanish players. We let Luke Shaw go to the rags, Chambers to Arsenal. We need to look at this.
So now it's the foreign contingent to blame???????? Make your mind up will you. English talent?? So you think spunking 40-50 mill on Barklay is the answer to all these problems. Luke Shaw??? I take it you have seen him play recently-another overpriced,overhyped player. Barklay is top quality for sure but not at the prices Everton will be quoting.
Mister Appointment said:adrianr said:Good post but the question of whether Pellegrini is the right man to rebuild the squad is the wrong one, given that it should be Txiki who is in charge of that anyway, the whole point being we're not tied to a certain set of players only working under a certain manager.
It's also another reason people shouldn't be so quick to criticise Pellegrini or Mancini, the latter as you rightly point out knew this team still needed huge investment to make proper inroads in Europe. Say what you like about what a nasty man he was, he bloody well knew his football. Pellegrini may be happier to get on with what he's been given, but also as you say, shouldn't be made the patsy for sub-par players incapable or unwilling to play like professional footballers.
That in mind,
1) I was under the impression given our new financial standing that this would no longer be an issue. We should be able to spend plenty to fix the squad without pissing everyone off, but ultimate if the choice is a world class football team or delaying UEFA coming up with a new arbitrary set of rules to punish us by, I'd suggest the former is the way to go.
2) Of course. The coaches you could say are a definitive cut above Pellegrini you can count on one hand - The man contrary to more recent belief is not an idiot. I'd love to see Pep here, just to see if the forum would still demand him out at the first sign of trouble, because rest assured no-one is going to come in and win everything all the time. There's a niggling worry that in Mancini and Pellegrini we've still never had a 'Tier 1' manager like Pep or Ancelotti, but even they will fall foul if they're given players who won't try. They're football managers, not miracle workers.
3) They have to decide who's opinion is more important, the establishment or the public. Because in trying to appease the establishment you can be damn sure we're the European laughing stock of the public. People were talking before our group how it was daft that the English champions were in with the German champions, and yet here we are on course to finish bottom of the group again, all because we tried to keep a few wannabe dictators happy by slipping over the draw bridge before it was raised. We should have been pushing for proper fairness from the start, not hoping they would let us into the gang and we could stick two fingers up to everyone else.
I feel much saner and much better reading posts like this.
Good to see in amongst the usual knee jerk crap there's a lot of well thought out and rational responses to what the future holds and requires.
On point 3, there's something which I think we cannot ignore. Look at what simply having Lampard play a few games did for our media coverage. The post Chelsea love in was unbelievable. It's my firm belief that to win hearts and minds, we need the next crop of ENGLISH talent in our squad. It's a reality which United and Chelsea have been aware of and very good at for a decade know. Understanding that that English core helps shape the narrative. We really need that. Barkley, Clyne, Ward Prose, even Rodriquez. All of them I'd take in a heartbeat and let Toure, Sagna, Jovetic, and Navas go.
Bayern do it with German players. Barca/Madrid with Spanish players. We let Luke Shaw go to the rags, Chambers to Arsenal. We need to look at this.
Didsbury Dave said:Very interesting point, MA.
But looking at English talent, whilst I agree it raises our standing at home, does not neccessarily address our problems in Europe: don't forget, ALL English teams are doing poorly in Europe, despite being some of the most expensively assembled teams. There's a difference between the way the Premier League is played and other leagues, and you could even see it in games like last night.
13/8 with a bookie on talkshite this morning that he's the next manager to goSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:NipHolmes said:St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:Just sack the manager. Its not rocket science.
Naive in the extreme
Naivity is burying your head in the sand mate.
It may be to you Nip but do you or anyone on this board actually think our CEO,Chairman,Owner are going to be happy with this champions league campaign. He is a gonner whatever we do this season and if anyone wants a small wager that he wont be manager next season then bring it on.
It has been an unmitigating disaster it really has.