Palestine Action

[BlueAnorak]

What is it with you people and Mao Zedong?

Apart from being the biggest mass murderer in history you mean?
Well, I suppose he was good on quiz shows...

 

[bluethrunthru]

Has the OP been arrested yet for the crime of starting this thread?

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Couple more terrorists banged up today:



What a fucking farce this is

 

[The blue phantom]

Couple more terrorists banged up today:



What a fucking farce this is

So there's absolutely nothing wrong with that sign.

 

[Palerider]

I know you're trying to create this false equivalence between us, but I've said that they should be arrested, charged, and given a stiff punishment, whereas you're arguing that that isn't enough, and you're doing so purely because you disagree with them, like some little wannabe dictator. What I'm against is draconian punishments for people on the grounds of their political beliefs, and the silencing of those with similar beliefs. We've already seen evidence of it happening. People being accosted by the police for having 'similar views' to Palestine Action. That'd be like you being arrested for protesting about abortion because you happen to have the same opinion as someone who bombed an abortion clinic whose group was the proscribed (an actual legitimate reason to label someone a terrorist).

What the hell are you on about? No one is stopping you supporting Palestine. No one. We are all being told NOT to support the 'wannabe dictators' of Palestine Action. That's not hard is it? You can support Palestine without supporting these idiots surely? No one is stopping anyone's political beliefs, they are being told, like little children, that their behaviour is not acceptable. As I, and I think many, many others have said, peaceful protest all you want but protesters do not have the right to break the law if their peaceful protest falls on deaf ears.

 

[oldius]

It isn't a genocide, it is just the deliberate killing of men, women, and children by shooting, starvation, removal of aid and medicine, and the slaughter of medics.

Is that too much for a T-shirt?

 

[Vic]

What the hell are you on about? No one is stopping you supporting Palestine. No one. We are all being told NOT to support the 'wannabe dictators' of Palestine Action. That's not hard is it? You can support Palestine without supporting these idiots surely? No one is stopping anyone's political beliefs, they are being told, like little children, that their behaviour is not acceptable. As I, and I think many, many others have said, peaceful protest all you want but protesters do not have the right to break the law if their peaceful protest falls on deaf ears.

And people wonder how the Holocaust happened.

 

[bluethrunthru]

 

[Vic]

Long but written entertainingly...

The attempt to get an interim injunction against the proscription. Full hearing starts tomorrow.

"We Accept Of Course That It Is Draconian: And Deliberately So". - Craig Murray

On Friday 4 July I headed back to the Royal Courts of Justice for the hearing brought by Huda Ammori, a co-founder of Palestine Action, on an application for relief from the proscription order against Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation. Huda had applied for judicial review of the...

www.craigmurray.org.uk

 

[bert38]

As ex job-these officers are talking shite.

I would say there is some editing in the video so some context may be missing.

It also evidences how difficult it is to get officers trained correctly with changing legislation-its typically done over the force intranet with a power point presentation with some mutli guess questions. (covid was a nightmare becuase the rules/law was changing alomst every day so it was impossible).

But taken at face value they are talking nonsense and the legislation was not passed to prevent peacefully protesting against the israeli govt's genocide.

 

[KS55]

As ex job-these officers are talking shite.

I would say there is some editing in the video so some context may be missing.

It also evidences how difficult it is to get officers trained correctly with changing legislation-its typically done over the force intranet with a power point presentation with some mutli guess questions. (covid was a nightmare becuase the rules/law was changing alomst every day so it was impossible).

But taken at face value they are talking nonsense and the legislation was not passed to prevent peacefully protesting against the israeli govt's genocide.

The police misinterpret laws like this regularly. Remember when they interpreted anti terrorist legislation as forbidding all photography in public places. The Royal Scotsman was passing along our local line; the police arrested train spotters trying to photograph it. They also arrested people demonstrating against arms manufacturers, claiming it was aiding terrorists. Even as they were doing that, their commander denied on tv that it was happening.

 

[bert38]

The police misinterpret laws like this regularly. Remember when they interpreted anti terrorist legislation as forbidding all photography in public places. The Royal Scotsman was passing along our local line; the police arrested train spotters trying to photograph it. They also arrested people demonstrating against arms manufacturers, claiming it was aiding terrorists. Even as they were doing that, their commander denied on tv that it was happening.

The reality is it can be v hard to keep up with changing legislation-there just isn’t the time to train everybody correctly or to test that knowledge.

I worked with people who didn’t have a clue-it’s really incumbent on the individual to keep up to date.

And a lot of law is very complicated. Not an excuse but reality. But there’s simply no way in the circumstances presented in the video that that fits the law as they argued.

I would always encourage officers to consider ‘what the spirit of the act was meant to be’ and should lead you to the right answer, but there were areas of law, especially PACE that I’d get wrong or have to frequently revisit -especially in custody and around juveniles (around strip searches etc which has been in the news in recent times-officers often don’t understand the law around this).

 

[KS55]

Long but written entertainingly...

The attempt to get an interim injunction against the proscription. Full hearing starts tomorrow.

"We Accept Of Course That It Is Draconian: And Deliberately So". - Craig Murray

On Friday 4 July I headed back to the Royal Courts of Justice for the hearing brought by Huda Ammori, a co-founder of Palestine Action, on an application for relief from the proscription order against Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation. Huda had applied for judicial review of the...

www.craigmurray.org.uk

An extremely disturbing report, questioning the British gov’s adherence to democratic values. Some jiggery-pokery by the judges is evident.
All our legislation concerning intelligence and terrorism is authoritarian in nature. As we have seen in recent cases, the intelligence departments’ witnesses lie to the courts.
It should be remembered that Craig Murray was sacked by Blair for the inconvenient sin of calling out as a criminal the head of a gov that Blair supported and later made money from.

 

[KS55]

The reality is it can be v hard to keep up with changing legislation-there just isn’t the time to train everybody correctly or to test that knowledge.

I worked with people who didn’t have a clue-it’s really incumbent on the individual to keep up to date.

And a lot of law is very complicated. Not an excuse but reality. But there’s simply no way in the circumstances presented in the video that that fits the law as they argued.

I would always encourage officers to consider ‘what the spirit of the act was meant to be’ and should lead you to the right answer, but there were areas of law, especially PACE that I’d get wrong or have to frequently revisit -especially in custody and around juveniles (around strip searches etc which has been in the news in recent times-officers often don’t understand the law around this).

Bert, I accept what you say about the difficulty of keeping up with ever changing laws, particularly when such laws are often poorly drafted. What I find hard to accept is an almost wilful stupidity in interpreting those laws on the ground. This is not universal but happens far too often. In the case of Palestine Action, the detention of people saying ‘I oppose genocide’ is ridiculous. Are they going to arrest the five UN rapporteurs (some of whom may be currently here, I believe) who declare the same and support the legal action to suspend the proscription?
Demonstrators opposite the High Court were pulled out of the crowd and searched on anti-terrorist grounds.

 

[bert38]

Bert, I accept what you say about the difficulty of keeping up with ever changing laws, particularly when such laws are often poorly drafted. What I find hard to accept is an almost wilful stupidity in interpreting those laws on the ground. This is not universal but happens far too often. In the case of Palestine Action, the detention of people saying ‘I oppose genocide’ is ridiculous. Are they going to arrest the five UN rapporteurs (some of whom may be currently here, I believe) who declare the same and support the legal action to suspend the proscription?
Demonstrators opposite the High Court were pulled out of the crowd and searched on anti-terrorist grounds.

I can see numerous legal challenges if people are detained for what appears to be misapplied laws-

 

[KS55]

I can see numerous legal challenges if people are detained for what appears to be misapplied laws-

There have been mass arrests this week. Many of these people just don’t have the means to get serious legal representation.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The reality is it can be v hard to keep up with changing legislation-there just isn’t the time to train everybody correctly or to test that knowledge.

But clearly in this case, the officers are aware of a change in the legislation, otherwise they wouldn't be confronting the protesters in the first place. So there's no possible argument that they "can't keep up" with the legislation, just that they have chosen to interpret the new legislation in a particular way, or they've been told to interpret the new legislation in a particular way.

 

[bert38]

There have been mass arrests this week.

Disgraceful imo.

 

[KS55]

What the hell are you on about? No one is stopping you supporting Palestine. No one. We are all being told NOT to support the 'wannabe dictators' of Palestine Action. That's not hard is it? You can support Palestine without supporting these idiots surely? No one is stopping anyone's political beliefs, they are being told, like little children, that their behaviour is not acceptable. As I, and I think many, many others have said, peaceful protest all you want but protesters do not have the right to break the law if their peaceful protest falls on deaf ears.

You should read Blair’s Anti-Terrorist laws.

 

[bert38]

But clearly in this case, the officers are aware of a change in the legislation, otherwise they wouldn't be confronting the protesters in the first place. So there's no possible argument that they "can't keep up" with the legislation, just that they have chosen to interpret the new legislation in a particular way, or they've been told to interpret the new legislation in a particular way.

One of them is reading it from his device-I’m not making any excuses-in fact I’d argue their interpretation is wrong-but getting that learning across to everyone is not easy..it doesn’t sit well with me.