Peter William Sutcliffe

[petrusha]

Disappointed it didn’t give more of the details around the trial, which is arguably worth a big budget documentary budget if its own. Or even a drama being made. Must have been incredible to be involved with. There’s something inherently grim about the upper echelons of much of the criminal bar.

Also if it’s for a wider audience, they should have explained the rest of the marterial narrative around the hoax tapes. Definitely an oversight not to.

Otherwise, it was decent enough. 7/10.

A bit late to the party, but I'm glad I watched it. Thought it had two strengths. One was that, with four 50 minute instalments, they had the time to include a lot of contemporary archive footage, which did really give a flavour of what that time and place were like. The second is that it fairly comprehensively demolished the impression that much coverage down the years has either perpetuated or at least not challenged in terms of Sutcliffe fundamentally being a killer of sex workers.

The latter being so, I agree that it really would have been worth investigating that the Attorney General first accepted a manslaughter plea on the grounds of diminished responsibility based on opinions from three very eminent expert doctors. Surely it would have been worth examining how such experts came to hold the view they did and why the trial judge insisted that the matter be put to the jury, but it wasn't even mentioned.

I also agree that the hoax should have been given greater prominence. They completely glossed over the letters that were sent prior to the tape, but the contents of the letters were pivotal in terms of the tape being treated as the voice of the killer.

 

[Fame Monster]

Unbelievable that they fell for that hoax tape. Thankfully (in relative terms), he only killed one more woman (?) after it was sent. Anyone know how they found out he had dodgy plates, did they just radio in his reg I'm guessing?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

A bit late to the party, but I'm glad I watched it. Thought it had two strengths. One was that, with four 50 minute instalments, they had the time to include a lot of contemporary archive footage, which did really give a flavour of what that time and place were like. The second is that it fairly comprehensively demolished the impression that much coverage down the years has either perpetuated or at least not challenged in terms of Sutcliffe fundamentally being a killer of sex workers.

The latter being so, I agree that it really would have been worth investigating that the Attorney General first accepted a manslaughter plea on the grounds of diminished responsibility based on opinions from three very eminent expert doctors. Surely it would have been worth examining how such experts came to hold the view they did and why the trial judge insisted that the matter be put to the jury, but it wasn't even mentioned.

I also agree that the hoax should have been given greater prominence. They completely glossed over the letters that were sent prior to the tape, but the contents of the letters were pivotal in terms of the tape being treated as the voice of the killer.

One thing that struck me in particular about the documentary was how much society has changed in the last 40 years; much more so that in the previous 40, I'll hazard. I'm not talking in the obvious terms of technology (there's no way Sutcliffe would have got to murder two or three today with ANPR, GPS and CCTV being so ubiquitous), or even the naked misogyny, but rather the people and the way they conducted themselves.

I was especially struck by the dignified if somewhat emotionally repressed way that Barbara Leach's mother, Beryl, talked about her daughter's murder, both immediately afterwards and following the conviction. Her father too, talking about that dress. Same went for another set of parents being interviewed. There's a stoicism that the working class/lower middle class used to possess which seems a million miles away from the way people are today. Don't think hiding your emotions is necessarily good or healthy, but there certainly was a dignity to it which I found admirable when watching the programme.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Unbelievable that they fell for that hoax tape. Thankfully (in relative terms), he only killed one more woman (?) after it was sent. Anyone know how they found out he had dodgy plates, did they just radio in his reg I'm guessing?

I was wondering the same; it's not like now when they can have a range of details in seconds. Makes you wonder if he wanted to be caught, though, driving round on moody plates.

I think the hoax tape is a classic example of when someone wants something to be true, they fool themselves that it probably is. I thought senior Old Bill's beaming, self-satisfied smiles after he was arrested were absolutely sickening and utterly reprehensible. By any objective measure, they were completely wrong about who the offender was, to the exclusion of any other possibilities. A fuck up of monumental proportions. Fuck all to smile about lads.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Thank god for those two coppers having the wherewithal to go back to the scene of where they’d picked him up. The guys in charge were typical old, stubborn Yorkshire pricks that had set themselves on finding one type of person and disregarded so much evidence. Imagine being that copper in the film that had gone to his house, felt really uneasy about him then getting lambasted from his boss because he didn’t have a Geordie accent! That guy must have lived a pretty traumatized life.

And the way they were all celebrating made my blood boil when they clearly had fuck all to do with him being caught. Then one of them sold his story and went and bought a house with the ‘commercial value’ he’d ‘earned’. Absolute scum.

I know Netflix has destroyed the reputation of a lot of the USA police force and justice systems but they’d have a right good go at the UK’s and others given the opportunity.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Thank god for those two coppers having the wherewithal to go back to the scene of where they’d picked him up. The guys in charge were typical old, stubborn Yorkshire pricks that had set themselves on finding one type of person and disregarded so much evidence. Imagine being that copper in the film that had gone to his house, felt really uneasy about him then getting lambasted from his boss because he didn’t have a Geordie accent! That guy must have lived a pretty traumatized life.

And the way they were all celebrating made my blood boil when they clearly had fuck all to do with him being caught. Then one of them sold his story and went and bought a house with the ‘commercial value’ he’d ‘earned’. Absolute scum.

I know Netflix has destroyed the reputation of a lot of the USA police force and justice systems but they’d have a right good go at the UK’s and others given the opportunity.

It wasn’t even a Geordie accent on the tape ffs!

Completely agree about those two SYP coppers too. That YEP journalist (who I thought came across as a bit of a tit) was completely wrong when he said the arrest wasn’t down to good policing; it absolutely was - just not by the people heading up the investigation.

 

[jay_mcfc]

It wasn’t even a Geordie accent on the tape ffs!

Completely agree about those two SYP coppers too. That YEP journalist (who I thought came across as a bit of a tit) was completely wrong when he said the arrest wasn’t down to good policing; it absolutely was - just not by the people heading up the investigation.

Brilliant police work. I reckon at that point the beat officers had very little confidence in what the boss' were doing so it was really good of them to go back to the spot without telling anyone what they were doing. God only knows how their boss' would have reacted if they'd said they were going to look for evidence against someone with a Yorkshire accent.

Full marks to the guy who interviewed Sutcliffe at his house and found the evidence to suggest he was a major suspect too.

By the time he was caught he had ben spotted in a red light district 50 times, he'd been spoken to by the police 9 times, the £5 note had been tracked back to his work place where the workers even called him the ripper, he had a size 8.5 shoe. But not a Wearside accent. The FBI took one look at the letters and said they were a hoax immediately. This was a fuck up on a grand scale.

 

[Lupo]

Brilliant police work. I reckon at that point the beat officers had very little confidence in what the boss' were doing so it was really good of them to go back to the spot without telling anyone what they were doing. God only knows how their boss' would have reacted if they'd said they were going to look for evidence against someone with a Yorkshire accent.

Full marks to the guy who interviewed Sutcliffe at his house and found the evidence to suggest he was a major suspect too.

By the time he was caught he had ben spotted in a red light district 50 times, he'd been spoken to by the police 9 times, the £5 note had been tracked back to his work place where the workers even called him the ripper, he had a size 8.5 shoe. But not a Wearside accent. The FBI took one look at the letters and said they were a hoax immediately. This was a fuck up on a grand scale.

He also had a prominent gap in his front teeth that matched bite marks found at murder scenes not to mention black afro type hair, black beard and black devilish eyes as described by several witnesses.

The focus put on the Wearside Jack tapes was, frankly, criminal

 

[jay_mcfc]

He also had a prominent gap in his front teeth that matched bite marks found at murder scenes not to mention black afro type hair, black beard and black devilish eyes as described by several witnesses.

The focus put on the Wearside Jack tapes was, frankly, criminal

Yeah, and the e-fit that the bosses had effectively dismissed because it was by a witness who said the attacker had a Yorkshire accent and she wasn't a prostitute. Thankfully the coppers that picked him up saw that e-fit in the police station and realized it was him. Same with the copper who went to his house to interview him.

 

[Double R]

Tried watching the Netflix doc last night. Had to switch off, just cant bring myself to give 4 hours of my life to this bastard. But the family of the victims, still deserve to be heard.