PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[KS55]

One thing I don't understand is did City having the charges filed against us stop the government's proposals being released?

I guess that the PL at the least hope that the case against us will be well on the way by the time an independent regulator is in place and that the new regulator will not interfere with it. I don’t suppose the PL really believed that their announcement would change the gov’s mind.

 

[cheekybids]

That may have made some sense, but can you imagine the fallout of the PL had said that.

They have made two mistakes in my book: first, opening the PL investigation at the same time as the UEFA investigation. They could have easily have waited until UEFA/CAS was finished before assessing if there was a case to answer at PL level; second, making the serious (and imho baseless, or at least unprovable) allegations against the club that they did last year. They could easily have submitted allegations to the IC that would carry a penalty (win for the PL) but did not effectively infer fraud.

Why would the PL do those two things? Pressure from the usual suspects is the obvious answer, which brings me back to the point that Masters is too weak to be leading the PL in the same way Platini was too weak to lead UEFA. Between the two of these arseholes, their incompetence has led us to where we are today.

That happens all the time, it’s called following the process & they had no problem following it with the hacking investigation. It’s all in the past & no further evidence, draw a line in it.

It’s about having a backbone & not allowing ‘the history clubs’ to think they need to be obeyed. The corruption was putting a patsy in place like Masters & he was out of his depth to realise it, others ran for the hills.

 

[Roachy]

Completely agree. I just find it hard to believe they would pursue the charges purely to appease the pressure from the usual suspects no matter how rushed it was. They can’t win whatever the result of the hearing. But if it goes in favour of the PL it will be carnage.

They have had 4 years to get a case together - if it’s the same as what was heard at CAS surely they would not have bothered proceeding.

But who knows, maybe it was the pressure. Hopefully it was.

It's intriguing as to what the pressure was though. I haven't gave it much thought, but what leverage were the other clubs using against the PL to bring these accusations. Something along the lines of "get City sorted out or else". Well what was the "or else" bit. Unless the PL were complicit. Interesting and infuriating at the same time.

 

[mancboy]

you are a legal man - are you telling me that PL would have proceeded the way they have even if they were advised their case wasn’t strong enough ?

Four years to build a case and they went ahead even if advised what they have is not strong enough ?

if they didnt believe the charges, they wouldnt have charged us, but by your supposition every time a body goes after someone just purely by charging them then thats enough, thank god you arent in charge otherwise half the population would be in jail just because they had been charged.

 

[KS55]

A couple of things that keep getting raised that we should put the lid on once and for all.

Firstly, the word fraud isn't used in the allegations because this is a case of breach of contract. The contract between the PL and the club doesn't refer to fraud, so the allegations carefully (eventually) refer to the rules in the contract that were breached. The combination of rule breaches may effectively represent fraud but the absense of the word in the PL statement means nothing and implies nothing.

Secondly, there is no legal requirement, other than in a regulated industry, to report fraud to the authorities. The fact that the PL hasn't referred the club to the SFO, for example, means nothing and implies nothing.

Actually, if the SFO or others discovered a fraud that the PL clearly knew about but did nothing, the PL would get a public kicking. To protect themselves they should always report a suspected fraud irrespective of the legal duty.

 

[mancboy]

True, but I don’t think it’s a given that they only pursued this because they truly believed in the veracity of their case. It seems a bit more complex than that.

You have to factor in the pressure they were under from certain clubs and the media, as well as the looming threat of an independent regulator etc.

The fact that they seemingly rushed the announcement of the charges and had to subsequently correct themselves suggests that it wasn’t the result of a carefully drawn out, considered process.

That said, I don’t think anyone can say with any real certainty just how this will all play out at this stage.

Ive said it before and i will say it again, this was a fishing expedition by the pl, a last desperate attempt by them to say to the government 'look we have our house in order, we can look after ourselves, we dont need independed regulation' , what they didnt count on was city fighting back, they thought city would take a slap on the wrist, the red tops would be satisfied and the government mollified, that has not happened and they have spent the last 2 years trying to wangle their way out of it while keeping any sense of professionalism and power and they are failing miserable, they cant even get the psr rules right which are rules they implemented and drew up themselves to the point of having to rip them up and start again so to assume they can get something as complex as this right when they couldnt even get the original charges right is fanciful at best.

 

[MadchesterCity]

That is so bang on. They pay £85m for Antony, £65m for Casimero, £80+m for Sancho, etc. But it will be the poor bastards in the office, kitchens, training ground getting made redundant to cut costs. Laughable.

How many refs they got on the books?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

This is really the only explanation, imo, why they are continuing. They started the investigation, found some things that needed explanation but the club didn't provide the proof to support the explanations because they aren't required by the PL rules, or by UK law so to do, it being information held externally. So what do the PL do? Finish the investigation without a proper conclusion, which is a terrible situation for a governing body? Or continue with the disciplinary process, incur huge legal fees, and then "lose" the case, which is a terrible situation for a governing body.

The club has stitched the PL up good and proper over this, I think. We really have some clever people running the club.

This perfectly encapsulates my take on it too. It is by far the most likely explanation.

 

[mancboy]

This is really the only explanation, imo, why they are continuing. They started the investigation, found some things that needed explanation but the club didn't provide the proof to support the explanations because they aren't required by the PL rules, or by UK law so to do, it being information held externally. So what do the PL do? Finish the investigation without a proper conclusion, which is a terrible situation for a governing body? Or continue with the disciplinary process, incur huge legal fees, and then "lose" the case, which is a terrible situation for a governing body.

The club has stitched the PL up good and proper over this, I think. We really have some clever people running the club.

Just like most stupid organisations and people they have found themselves in a hole and instead of looking for a ladder they have decided to keep on digging, can you imagine how stupid they would have looked if after city biting back they backed up and said tbf we dont have anything concrete we're just trying to look tough to stop independent regulation by keeping it tied up with independent panels etc they have shamefully passed the buck while besmirching the clubs name, they really are a bunch of chancers who have found themselves so far out of their depth its untrue, masters is a primary school kid trying to discuss financial policy with phd students and it shows everywhere.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I re read your post and at first I thought you where say the word fraud was not used because it was not fraud but I see that you say the word fraud is not used because it’s about breach of contract but why have they chickened out of using the word fraud ?

Final point I should have made in the previous post

Why has it taken so long if they actually believe we have done what is alleged ?

So I am ignoring your first response as it completely missed the point, other than to say:

Research for yourself the requirement to report fraud rather than ask me to justify it. I freely admit I may be wrong about anything, but you think I am wrong, show me why.

Imho, the SFO isn't going to get involved if there is an ongoing civil case which will determine if there has been a fraud or not. Why would they? They can wait until it's finished, review the evidence presented in the report and then decide whether or not to proceed on the basis of a higher level of proof. I doubt they have the time or resources just to open cases based on what is in the press.

And now your second response.

They haven't "chickened" out of using the word fraud. There is no need to. They have followed their procedure and simply referred to the IC a list of rules they allege have been breached.

And the reason it's taking so long? Every legal person in here said it would take 2, 3, 4 years and that is what is happening. Simply put, the PL has brought forward a complicated case.

Also, I never said I thought the PL themselves think they will prove these allegations. My hypothesis is that the club put them in a position where they had to shit or get off the can. And they chose to shit.