Is that true? I missed it if so.If Project River’s tease about non-cooperation a few weeks ago, which turned out to be about Forest rather than us, was accurate the Premier League were arguing that presenting documents not in their preferred format and insufficiently cross referenced amounted were worthy of being penalised. One step away from accusing them of failing to highlight in marker pen the bits that proved they were guilty
Great posts i just want to add in 2014 Uefa made two mistakes, the first was using a hostile company to investigate, the second was using illegal rules, City threatened using the law and Bosman, with 20 clubs that year alone charged UEFA was in a sticky place, but they had an Ace, it is an invitational tournament, so a compromise was made.Warning *Long post*
We go around and around sometimes, so I tried to summarise where we are and how we got here. By necessity it avoids some of the intricacies, but I tried to be factual where I could. Feel free to comment if I have said anything you disagree with.
2014 UEFA investigation and settlement
- City were never charged with anything.
- City accepted the settlement without accepting guilt.
- There was an investigation but UEFA and City settled before referral to the Adjudicatory Chamber for verdict.
- A settlement does not indicate guilt.
- UEFA moving the goalposts was the club’s main concern for an FFP breach but it wasn’t the only issue.
- Other issues included fair values of sponsorships, related party nature of sponsorships, the inclusion of contract amortisation in the pre-2010 squad cost mitigation, the sale of IP to CFG and the sale of image rights to Fordham.
- Any of these could have led to a breach even if the goalposts hadn't been moved.
- It was in the interest of both parties not to litigate all this, so they settled.
- Importantly for City, the settlement meant the issues of fair value, related party, CDG and Fordham weren’t raised again in 2019.
2019 UEFA investigation, punishment and CAS
- City were found guilty by UEFA but all charges except non-compliance were not proven on appeal at CAS
- So, while it is accurate to say City were found guilty by UEFA, it is disingenuous to say that without referring to the successful appeal.
- The issues for which City were punished by UEFA were: funding of Etihad sponsorship, funding of Etisalat sponsorship, filing incorrect accounts, filing incorrect FFP information.
- City were banned from the CL for two years and fined 30 million Euros (for all the charges, there was no split).
- City appealed to CAS and provided new information, mostly external.
- City didn’t choose the Chairman of the CAS panel, City chose one arbitrator, UEFA chose one and City proposed the Chairman, which was accepted by UEFA. CAS rules allow the two parties to choose the three arbitrators, if they can’t agree they select one each and the two selected arbitrators choose a Chairman and, finally, if they can’t agree then the Chairman of the Judicial Panel can appoint a Chairman. Nothing untoward there.
- CAS time limited the Etisalat issue and part of the Etihad issue.
- Note time limiting isn't a “got off on a technicality”, it is a part of case law in every jurisdiction and just means the issue can’t be proven.
- CAS found, on the balance of probabilities, taking into account the “evidence” presented by UEFA and the counter-evidence provided by the club, that the issue of Etihad was not proven.
- CAS found that City had not complied sufficiently with UEFA, distinguishing three areas: information requested by UEFA on which they later did not insist - no sanction; information requested by UEFA but was presented for the first time at CAS - sanction; information not requested by UEFA that was later presented to CAS - no sanction.
- So the CAS award was Etihad and Etisalat not proven, non-compliance partly proven - CL ban overturned and 10 million Euro sanction.
2019 PL investigation
- Investigation was opened concurrently with UEFA investigation.
- Was delayed firstly by UEFA investigation/ charges and CAS then by some procedural complaints from City on cooperation (countered by PL) and confidentiality (backed by PL).
- Complaints were legitimate but ultimately rejected.
- Allegations referred to disciplinary panel chairman in February 2023.
- Alleged rule breaches were:
- Filing incorrect accounts, presenting incorrect financial information to the PL, acting in bad faith, 50 alleged breaches.
- Understating manager remuneration, 8 alleged breaches.
- Understating player remuneration, 12 alleged breaches.
- UEFA FFP and licensing, 5 alleged breaches.
- PL FFP, 6 alleged breaches.
- Non-cooperation, 30 alleged breaches.
- Total 111 alleged breaches (plus 4 for when rule changes mid-season led to two rule breaches multiple times in a season).
2023 Independent PL Panel (more personal comment as in progress)
- Three member panel chosen by chairman of judicial panel who was chosen by PL.
- We don't know the detail of the allegations, but:
- Some of the allegations mirror the UEFA charges (funding of sponsorships, filing incorrect accounting information, acting in bad faith), so it is safe to assume the detail of the allegations, and the evidence to support them, is also the same.
- The PL may also have additional evidence from their investigation, but, even if the allegations were true, any real incriminating evidence would be external and I doubt any external evidence was provided to the investigation.
- There are also additional allegations concerning matters that were clearly time limited at UEFA (certainly Mancini), matters that were time limited by CAS (Etihad partly, Etisalat), matters that were included in the 2014 settlement and therefore not raised by UEFA in 2019 (most probably Fordham) and, possibly if unlikely, matters that were not in the leaked emails but were included in the 2014 UEFA settlement and therefore not raised by UEFA in 2019 (fair values, related parties, IP sale to CFG).
- General consensus is a hearing in the autumn, an award next year followed by the inevitable appeals.
- Possibility of a settlement before that.
Predictions (completely personal)
- Mancini, time- limited unless the PL can show knowing concealment (unlikely).
- Fordham, time- limited unless the PL can show knowing concealment (unlikely, but don’t know enough about Fordham to be sure).
- Etihad, same as CAS, unproven unless PL have some particularly cogent incriminating evidence from somewhere (unlikely).
- Etisalat, CAS evidence will show no knowing concealment, so time- limited.
- Filing of incorrect accounts, hinges on Etihad (rest isn’t material), so unlikely to be proven.
- Acting in bad faith, if the above comes to pass, this falls away.
- PL FFP breaches, if Etihad resolved as above, shouldn't be a problem.
- UEFA FFP and licensing breaches, if all resolved as above, shouldn’t be a problem.
- So what is left -1? Non-compliance. I can’t imagine that City didn't comply with all reasonable requests from the PL after the failed court appeals, so that leaves requests from the PL that City considered either unreasonable (fishing) or requests outside the scope of the PL rules (external information, imo). Probably same as CAS, financial sanction, maybe reduced if City can show unreasonable or outside scope.
- So what is left - 2? PL disagreeing with some 10 year old accounting treatments (understating expenses due to Fordham / IP sales to CFG). Possible sporting sanction (very unlikely), possible financial sanction (more likely, possibly suspended).
- So that is it, imho. Most likely outcome: financial sanction for non-compliance and (possibly) understatement of expenses on Fordham/IP sales.
Eh?Great posts i just want to add in 2014 Uefa made two mistakes, the first was using a hostile company to investigate, the second was using illegal rules, City threatened using the law and Bosman, with 20 clubs that year alone charged UEFA was in a sticky place, but they had an Ace, it is an invitational tournament, so a compromise was made.
In 2019 City did something clever, CAS is an arbitration service, they do not need proof, City threatened to use another if they did not use proof, thus ruining their good name, they had no choice hence only non compliance could be used.
City have done something similar with the 2023 case, making sure the panel knows their reputation will be ruined, should they find City guilty without proof, as City will go further.
A question on the Fordham income, sorry if you've answered.
I seem to recall that the Fordham image right income was standard practice for many clubs at the time, but as rules changed, many brought it in house and the extra income gained pretty much matched the income from the Fordham sales. Does that sound correct? I'm a little confused on the Fordham stuff generally.
Utd are facing a HMRC Tax Investigation because of that move - as are a few others.Don`t know who but i think it when we copied utd and introduced image rights.
Everyone? Can’t speak for others, but I’m not remotely shitting it.
You don't know this, the fact that the narrative has changed from being openly called cheats to just discussing the charges has been noticeable, you can't stop the media discussing the subject nor would anyone really want to, free speech is a basic tenet of the democracy we live in, what you can stop is the presumption of guilt that has been made by certain media outlets and that certainly has changed, especially from the major media players granted you are not going to stop everyone things will be dealt with on a case by case basisWhat we do know based on the coverage we have had over last week or so is that no letters have been sent warning media how they speak about us.
Etisalat was too - over 50% is owned by the state, but it's part owned by Sheikh Mansour who still has a substantial shareholding - I worked for them for two years out in Abu Dhabi and he visited us a few times.Just a clarification. Only deals which were adjudged to be related parties needed fair value appraisal and that in itself wasn't a "breach" so to speak, they'd just adjust the figures. The Etihad deal was found not to be a related party transaction, only the CFG and Fordham ones were.
Great posts i just want to add in 2014 Uefa made two mistakes, the first was using a hostile company to investigate, the second was using illegal rules, City threatened using the law and Bosman, with 20 clubs that year alone charged UEFA was in a sticky place, but they had an Ace, it is an invitational tournament, so a compromise was made.
In 2019 City did something clever, CAS is an arbitration service, they do not need proof, City threatened to use another if they did not use proof, thus ruining their good name, they had no choice hence only non compliance could be used.
City have done something similar with the 2023 case, making sure the panel knows their reputation will be ruined, should they find City guilty without proof, as City will go further.