PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Johnny Mars Bar said:
Can someone give me a summary of what this means?

I deleted my Twitter account a while ago and this thread has a billion pages of people talking bollocks
Click to expand...

I'll tell you what I think it means.

We've won.

Why?

Coz if the Premier League have nailed our bollocks to the floor in record time, we'd have gone down swinging, using every second and all means possible to prove our innocence, no way would we agree to throw in the towel early. Besides, when the judgement comes in it'll be close to six years since the investigation began, they've not managed to nail us in six years! I doubt they've been able to suddenly do it in six weeks.

Why?

Because, as those who know the ins and outs of this case have stated on numerous occasions, in the absence of a smoking gun, and there's never been any indication the Premier League have such a thing. It was always going to be immensely difficult and time consuming for the League to prove fraud on this scale, over such a long period, involving so many people. I would argue that a lengthy "trial" would be a prerequisite for the League to win such a complex case

Complex cases take time, "trials" cut short for want of evidence do not, and as has been stated many times, this "trial is a house of cards. If fraud cannot be proven once, it cannot be proven for a whole chunk of the 115, and given the fact that the Mancini and Yaya nonsense is clearly small potato bollocks, this shit show always had the potential to collapse quickly if the Premier League had fuck all.

I'm not a lawyer so this is just my opinion, and I'm assuming we have leverage with the independent commission to demand time to slug it out to the final round if needs must. But if we do have such leverage, Khaldoon doesn't seem minded to call it a day early if we're on the ropes, he'd only do that if our opponent was out for the count.
 
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As the SFO is a publicly funded operation, they subject to Freedom of Information requests from the general public
Anyone want to make such a request if they had received a referral to investigate the City fraud allegations?

Stages of a case​

Intelligence gathering or “pre-investigation” stage

The SFO receives information on possible criminal activity from a variety of sources, including whistleblowers, victims, other law enforcement agencies, the media, corporations themselves (“self reports”), and those in competition with them. This information is analysed and the potential for the alleged activity to become the subject of a criminal investigation is assessed by our Intelligence Unit, a team of intelligence operatives, lawyers, accredited financial intelligence officers, analysts and investigators.

The Intelligence Unit also undertakes its own research and proactively develops information. The unit has unique pre-investigation powers available under Section 2A of the Criminal Justice Act 1987 that are used to help determine whether to commence an investigation where it appears bribery and corruption may have taken place.

The Director can accept a case for criminal investigation if, in his judgment, it meets his Statement of Principle and if he considers there are reasonable grounds to suspect serious or complex fraud.

Investigation and prosecution

Once a case is accepted by the Director, investigators and lawyers work together from the start. This way of working is known in the UK as the Roskill model and is an exception to the normal practice in this country, in which crime is generally investigated by a police force and the evidence passed to the CPS to decide whether to prosecute. The SFO was set up differently because our cases need strong cooperation and management from both lawyers and investigators all the way through, to make sure that the lines of investigation are the best ones to uncover criminal activity, and eventually prove it in court.

Deferred Prosecution Agreements

If the investigation results in enough evidence to a support a realistic prospect of conviction, and if a prosecution is considered to be in the public interest, charges will be normally be brought. Alternatively the Director of the SFO may consider inviting a company to enter negotiations for a Deferred Prosecution Agreement. The SFO’s first DPA was with Standard Bank in 2015. Subsequent DPAs were agreed with Sarclad Ltd in 2016 and with Rolls-Royce and Tesco in 2017. In 2019, DPAs were agreed with Serco Geografix Ltd and Güralp Systems Ltd. In 2020, a DPAs were agreed with Airbus SE, G4S Care & Justice Services (UK) Ltd and Airline Services Ltd. In 2021, a DPA was agreed with Amec Foster Wheeler Energy Limited and with two companies for Bribery Act offences.

Trial

If we decide to prosecute the alleged criminals, there will often be a court trial.


How to make a Freedom of Information request​

1. Read about the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act and how to make a request.

2. Check to see whether the information you would like to request is already available. The SFO already publishes information relating to its:

3. Consider whether the information you would like to request is a matter of court record, which would mean the SFO cannot release it in response to an FOI request. You may instead wish to apply directly to the relevant court to request such information, details of which are available here.

4. Make a new request by contacting us on: information.officer@sfo.gov.uk
 
The perfect fumble said:
I tell you what I think it means.

We've won.

Why?

Coz if the Premier League has nailed our bollocks to the floor in record time, we'd go down swinging, using every second and all means possible to prove our innocence, no way would we agree to throw in the towel early. Besides, when the judgement comes in it'll be close to six years since the investigation began, they've not managed to nail us in six years! I doubt they've been able to suddenly do it in six weeks.

Why?

Because, as those who know the ins and outs of this case have stated on numerous occasions, in the absence of a smoking gun, and there's never been any indication the Premier League has such a thing. It was always going to be immensely difficult and time consuming for the Premier League to prove fraud on this scale, over such a long period, involving so many people. I would argue that a lengthy "trial" would be a prerequisite for the Premier League to win such a complex case

Complex cases take time, "trials" cut short for want of evidence do not, and has been stated many times, this "trial is a house of cards, if fraud cannot be proven once, it cannot be proven for a whole chunk of the 115, and given the fact that the Mancini and Yaya nonsense is clearly small potato bollocks, this shit show always had the potential to collapse quickly if the Premier League had fuck all.

I'm not a lawyer so this is just my opinion, and I'm assuming we have leverage with the independent commission to demand time to slug it out to the final round if needs must. But if we do have such leverage, Khaldoon doesn't seem minded to call it a day early if we're on the ropes, he'd only do that if our opponent was out for the count.
Click to expand...

Hope you’re right of course but if @slbsn thinks it means little then respectfully, I’ll trust his judgement.
 
slbsn said:
Very likely nothing, if it does mean something it could mean something either way (good or bad) and even if true, nobody ever confirmed the hearing duration anyway so we don’t know how long it was actually meant to run
Click to expand...
True.

But am I being naive to think that time and complexity are related. I remember you stating on Talk Sport that in the real world a fraud case like this might well take months, with the onus on the prosecution. If our "trial" has ended early does that not indicate, on the balance of probability, that the prosecution has struggled to prove its case?
 
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Newman Noggs said:
I'd suggest that, if the SFO were minded to exercise its considerable powers in this case, it would have done so before now and we'd know about it.
Click to expand...
Game, set & fuckin match!

That's EXACTLY why I stopped stressing about FFP, PSR & APT months ago. The fact these accusations are all over the media, & football being mentioned in Parliament with a regulator on the way, would pass any public interest test.

The fact our audited & certified accounts have been submitted to Companies House for the world to scrutinise, tells me the authorities have had a sniff, smelled bullshit & moved along not wanting to embarrass themselves.

Here's the key... The PL's private members club RULES, are NOT UK Law. Something that may breach FFP, PSR or APT probably won't be illegal in a criminal or civil court of law. This is why the two times external arbiters have looked into the allegations against Manchester City, they've told UEFA & the PL to stop being silly.

The only reason FFP, PSR & APT are still a thing is because their legality in UK & EU Law has never been tested. When faced with bitter opposition fans calling us cheats, I'm yet to happen across ONE who can name me another industry sector, where an owner is barred from investing their money into their business as they see fit.

If FFP, PSR & APT were applied to the British business sector, they'd cause more devastation than Brexit!
 
Re the hearing 'maybe' finishing early

I'd assume there is plenty of contingency built into the planned time frame as the worst thing would be if say 10 weeks were up but the hearing wasn't finished. The people involved aren't sat by their phones waiting for a new gig so getting all the required ones together could be highly challenging. Finishing 'early' is much the preferred option.
 
Kinkys Left Foot said:
As the SFO is a publicly funded operation, they subject to Freedom of Information requests from the general public
Anyone want to make such a request if they had received a referral to investigate the City fraud allegations?

Stages of a case​

Intelligence gathering or “pre-investigation” stage

The SFO receives information on possible criminal activity from a variety of sources, including whistleblowers, victims, other law enforcement agencies, the media, corporations themselves (“self reports”), and those in competition with them. This information is analysed and the potential for the alleged activity to become the subject of a criminal investigation is assessed by our Intelligence Unit, a team of intelligence operatives, lawyers, accredited financial intelligence officers, analysts and investigators.

The Intelligence Unit also undertakes its own research and proactively develops information. The unit has unique pre-investigation powers available under Section 2A of the Criminal Justice Act 1987 that are used to help determine whether to commence an investigation where it appears bribery and corruption may have taken place.

The Director can accept a case for criminal investigation if, in his judgment, it meets his Statement of Principle and if he considers there are reasonable grounds to suspect serious or complex fraud.

Investigation and prosecution

Once a case is accepted by the Director, investigators and lawyers work together from the start. This way of working is known in the UK as the Roskill model and is an exception to the normal practice in this country, in which crime is generally investigated by a police force and the evidence passed to the CPS to decide whether to prosecute. The SFO was set up differently because our cases need strong cooperation and management from both lawyers and investigators all the way through, to make sure that the lines of investigation are the best ones to uncover criminal activity, and eventually prove it in court.

Deferred Prosecution Agreements

If the investigation results in enough evidence to a support a realistic prospect of conviction, and if a prosecution is considered to be in the public interest, charges will be normally be brought. Alternatively the Director of the SFO may consider inviting a company to enter negotiations for a Deferred Prosecution Agreement. The SFO’s first DPA was with Standard Bank in 2015. Subsequent DPAs were agreed with Sarclad Ltd in 2016 and with Rolls-Royce and Tesco in 2017. In 2019, DPAs were agreed with Serco Geografix Ltd and Güralp Systems Ltd. In 2020, a DPAs were agreed with Airbus SE, G4S Care & Justice Services (UK) Ltd and Airline Services Ltd. In 2021, a DPA was agreed with Amec Foster Wheeler Energy Limited and with two companies for Bribery Act offences.

Trial

If we decide to prosecute the alleged criminals, there will often be a court trial.


How to make a Freedom of Information request​

1. Read about the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act and how to make a request.

2. Check to see whether the information you would like to request is already available. The SFO already publishes information relating to its:

3. Consider whether the information you would like to request is a matter of court record, which would mean the SFO cannot release it in response to an FOI request. You may instead wish to apply directly to the relevant court to request such information, details of which are available here.

4. Make a new request by contacting us on: information.officer@sfo.gov.uk
Click to expand...
Fuck me I hope they don't lean on the media for evidence, they've had us hung, drawn and quartered for the last 10 plus years.
 
The perfect fumble said:
True,

But am I being naive to think that time and complexity are related. I remember you stating on Talk Sport that in the real world a fraud case like this might well take months, with the onus on the prosecution. If our "trial" has ended early does that not indicate, on the balance of probability, that the prosecution has struggled to prove its case?
Click to expand...
Not really. If you wanted to you could say they didn’t feel they needed any further time on the key witnesses because they got what they wanted. I just don’t think you can read anything into it based on that rumour
 
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