Player that everybody loves but you think is overrated

River Plate said:
Ok, dude, whatever. Not engaging anymore with folks that don't care to have a productive argument.
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It’s non-productive as you’re showing me stuff from years ago.

The bloke has literally done nothing in England so far.

You can argue his brilliance all you want.

Pedro Neto has more assists than him this season.

Sean Longstaff had more than him last season.

I get you’re a fan. That’s cool. I might be too, should he do anything.
 
dennishasdoneit said:
Always surprised when folk say Shilton was over rated.

Brian Clough himself said the player was worth 10 pts a season,and a first division title and two European cups must surely suggest he was a safe pair of hands.
Tbh I was too young to really rate his performances on a technical level and you may have better input from me there....

However Forest would never have won the title if they had kept with the erratic England u21 keeper John Middleton in goal..after a very good start to the season they went to Highbury where Middletons pathetic performance forced Clough and Taylor to secure Shiltons transfer.His out standing double save from big Mick Ferguson's headers at Coventry in the penultimate game of the season won Forest that title....ive spoken to those who were there that day and it's one of those misty eyed moments.. Ferguson himself,an adroit lethal header of a ball couldn't believe it..

I'm aware some on here didn't rate his England performances, but I always preferred him in goal over Ray Clemence..

Interesting choice tbh.

Terry butcher always looked to me to he a solid defensive unit in tandem with Russel Osman,and perhaps Ipswich town's success and respect late 70s early 80s suggest the player was decent.i never felt he let England down either.

The only error I can recall him making back in the day was when Dave Bennett made him look like an ale house player at Villa Park ,81 ' Fa cup semi final when he drew the foul which led to Paul Powers brilliant free kick goal. ;)

I always liked Jesus.and prefer to remember his time at City before the two damaging, serious injuries...I saw a lot of footage of his time in Brazil leading the line as their number 9,taking some frightening violent challenges from opposition as a teenager, and simply getting up and getting on with the job...and scoring some outrageous goals,before we signed him.
Our management,as expected,clipped his wings a bit, I mean by restricting the natural Brazilan flair, and turned him into a bit of a work horse,which of course led to success for the whole team...but maybe.just maybe neutered his goal scoring prowess....a point open to debate I guess.

I love skilful players and there were enough examples of his tight bsll control during his time here..the one that sticks out for me was Bournemouth away few yrs back( where they kicked him all match )
when Out on the left touchline nr corner flag their left full back came in to challenge and a quick Brazilian shuffle of ball and feet sent the defender flying into the hoardings...brilliant.

The most recent league match he has played he scored a stupendous goal against utd ..so I'll leave it there...

The other player you mentioned I can't stand .vastly over rated player in red.
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Cloughie was without doubt a much better judge of a player than me, as was Bobby Robson
Can’t be denied though that Shilton was still being picked for England solely on reputation for his last decade. He was an utter embarrassment in 1990
Butcher was a pure ‘pashun’ merchant and cheerleader. A one dimensional, snail paced thug
His biggest achievement in an England shirt was cutting his head and playing on
That we now have defenders like Stones rather than Butcher is down to Pep teaching England how to play football
That Maguire is still involved is also embarrassing and a hangover from the Butcher days
 
River Plate said:
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That guy there to "kop some trophies"? He was surely overrated.
 
LongsightM13 said:
Cloughie was without doubt a much better judge of a player than me, as was Bobby Robson
Can’t be denied though that Shilton was still being picked for England solely on reputation for his last decade. He was an utter embarrassment in 1990
Butcher was a pure ‘pashun’ merchant and cheerleader. A one dimensional, snail paced thug
His biggest achievement in an England shirt was cutting his head and playing on
That we now have defenders like Stones rather than Butcher is down to Pep teaching England how to play football
That Maguire is still involved is also embarrassing and a hangover from the Butcher days
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I think you are being unfair on Butcher.
A very good centre half for clubs and country.
The John Stones comparison is unfair as well.Ball playing centre half's were not really a thing back then.
Your Shilton views are laughable as well.
Who were the other goalies in the 90 squad.
 
bennyboy said:
I think you are being unfair on Butcher.
A very good centre half for clubs and country.
The John Stones comparison is unfair as well.Ball playing centre half's were not really a thing back then.
Your Shilton views are laughable as well.
Who were the other goalies in the 90 squad.
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Shilton was a brilliant goalie in his heyday but he was poor in Italia 90. The deflection off Paul Parker in the semi was as bad as his leap in the third place play off game, where the Italian was called offside when he was 200 yards onside lol

Wasn't Chris Wood our backup goalie? I'm sure he should have been playing
 
Crouchinho said:
Loftus-Cheek. Pundits seemed to like him, but I never quite see what I was looking at. Wasn't an amazing dribbbler, wasn't an amazing passer, wasn't a goal scorer and didn't set up any goals. Didn't strike me as anything special in a holding role either.

He got called the new Michael Ballack, which for me is compete Ballacks.

Anyone rate(d) him at all?
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Nope… never understood the hype, same with Hudson Odoi
 
LongsightM13 said:
Cloughie was without doubt a much better judge of a player than me, as was Bobby Robson
Can’t be denied though that Shilton was still being picked for England solely on reputation for his last decade. He was an utter embarrassment in 1990
Butcher was a pure ‘pashun’ merchant and cheerleader. A one dimensional, snail paced thug
His biggest achievement in an England shirt was cutting his head and playing on
That we now have defenders like Stones rather than Butcher is down to Pep teaching England how to play football
That Maguire is still involved is also embarrassing and a hangover from the Butcher days
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're Shilton in his later years I do remember,.. now, how he got picked not on merit ,but to boost his Outstanding collection of England caps.
Fair point.

Terry Butcher still doesn't spring to mind as to me as an over rated defender of his day.He was a top No.5 centre half of the era,a bit like Big Dave Watson of City and England.."they shall not pass."

Watson could also,a bit harsly, be described as a' one dimensional snail paced thug.'..I thought he was a great player for us and England,altho watching him struggle to contain an 18 year old Maradonna at Wembley for England in 1980 ,the words snail paced and thug do appear appropriate...have a look back at the footage!

Going back to Butcher, the great Kevin Beattie( Ipswich and England) ,if he had have been fit more often for club and country would of course have been more of an all round ,accomplished,ball playing centre back..but comparing the likes of John Stones to 1970s meat and drink centre backs isn't really a barometer for saying someone was over rated.
Butcher was arguably the best of his era, at his one dimensional game, in this country,imo.
His partner Russell Osman never quite had the ability to follow him into the England team on a regular basis.
Kevin Beattie was mustard,when fit,an athlete,a destroyer, a brilliant header of a ball,a robust stopper..and an incredibly gifted passer of a ball from the back, over long and short distance..an example of an under rated player in my book.no one ever talks about him.
 
Crouchinho said:
Shilton was a brilliant goalie in his heyday but he was poor in Italia 90. The deflection off Paul Parker in the semi was as bad as his leap in the third place play off game, where the Italian was called offside when he was 200 yards onside lol

Wasn't Chris Wood our backup goalie? I'm sure he should have been playing
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Dave Beasant was one
 
dennishasdoneit said:
're Shilton in his later years I do remember,.. now, how he got picked not on merit ,but to boost his Outstanding collection of England caps.
Fair point.

Terry Butcher still doesn't spring to mind as to me as an over rated defender of his day.He was a top No.5 centre half of the era,a bit like Big Dave Watson of City and England.."they shall not pass."

Watson could also,a bit harsly, be described as a' one dimensional snail paced thug.'..I thought he was a great player for us and England,altho watching him struggle to contain an 18 year old Maradonna at Wembley for England in 1980 ,the words snail paced and thug do appear appropriate...have a look back at the footage!

Going back to Butcher, the great Kevin Beattie( Ipswich and England) ,if he had have been fit more often for club and country would of course have been more of an all round ,accomplished,ball playing centre back..but comparing the likes of John Stones to 1970s meat and drink centre backs isn't really a barometer for saying someone was over rated.
Butcher was arguably the best of his era, at his one dimensional game, in this country,imo.
His partner Russell Osman never quite had the ability to follow him into the England team on a regular basis.
Kevin Beattie was mustard,when fit,an athlete,a destroyer, a brilliant header of a ball,a robust stopper..and an incredibly gifted passer of a ball from the back, over long and short distance..an example of an under rated player in my book.no one ever talks about him.
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Often heard very good judges say the loss of both Bell and Beattie to catastrophic injuries really damaged England in the 70s, two of the most brilliant talents (and also fantastic athletes) in Europe at the time
 
With pogba failing a drugs test and most likely to get a 2-4 year ban, ending a career that should have been a damn sight better. He was always the emperor's New clothes at stretford.

No if he's taken PEDs and got caught, serves him right? What I really don't get is Ivan Toney betting on matches involving his own team, getting less than a year's ban. Surely as a player you're more susceptible to either being corrupt or corrupting others to fix matches? I think it should be a lifetime ban. Anyway I think both the above are overrated, pogba had ability, Toney I've never been impressed by.
 
levets said:
Nope… never understood the hype, same with Hudson Odoi
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Yep dreadful player. Could never work out what position he played but he was always crap. He's at Forest now?

I think Pennant and Walcott would be a good shout. Rated very highly when young but never really went up many levels. Walcott probably had a better career but "England's Saviour" as Arsenal fans used to say, he was not.
 
Aba452 said:
With pogba failing a drugs test and most likely to get a 2-4 year ban, ending a career that should have been a damn sight better. He was always the emperor's New clothes at stretford.

No if he's taken PEDs and got caught, serves him right? What I really don't get is Ivan Toney betting on matches involving his own team, getting less than a year's ban. Surely as a player you're more susceptible to either being corrupt or corrupting others to fix matches? I think it should be a lifetime ban. Anyway I think both the above are overrated, pogba had ability, Toney I've never been impressed by.
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Think he bet on his parent club when he was on loan, from memory
 
Varane in the last few years, was finished when Jesus bullied him to a cross at the Bernabeau
 
Aba452 said:
With pogba failing a drugs test and most likely to get a 2-4 year ban, ending a career that should have been a damn sight better. He was always the emperor's New clothes at stretford.

No if he's taken PEDs and got caught, serves him right? What I really don't get is Ivan Toney betting on matches involving his own team, getting less than a year's ban. Surely as a player you're more susceptible to either being corrupt or corrupting others to fix matches? I think it should be a lifetime ban. Anyway I think both the above are overrated, pogba had ability, Toney I've never been impressed by.
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To be fair, Pogba was excellent at Juve. And Toney, while no Messi, was effective in that Brentford side. Would he be as good with us, or Arsenal, or Liverpool. Almost definitely not. Brentford was his level. Agree with you about the length of his ban, though. It seems very lenient to me, given he was betting on his own team.
 
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