Player Topic: Eliaquim Mangala (2015/16)

[argyle]

I've criticised him but perhaps it's the high line, both fullbacks bombing forward and the weak midfield that is causing him and other defenders problems?

 

[Essex blue]

I've criticised him but perhaps it's the high line, both fullbacks bombing forward and the weak midfield that is causing him and other defenders problems?

Spot on! KDB, Silva, Yaya, Bony or Aguero don't bust a gut to get back. The problems lies when we lose possession and kolarov is too far advanced to recover along with fern means he gets exposed and when ur scared of making a mistake you hesitate for that split second instead of just doing your job.

Yaya is really not putting a shift in this season. How many times has he made a tackle or one of his famous runs. Apart from Arsenal and the last 15 mins he was useless. Sideways passing, no tackles just jogging around pretending to be busy!

I love Yaya but the question is has age caught up with him or are his legs starting to go? Should he be subbed after 60 mins so he can put the work in?

 

[Dax777]

I don't think that's quite true.

I don't think that is necessarily true of a defender. Some mature more than others. At 24 Thiago Silva was back in Brazil after failing to make the grade in Europe at Porto and Dinamo Moscow. Otamendi was back in South America after failing to make the grade in Europe. A defender can look world class in one system and then look a shambles in another. I'd reserve judgement on him until we improve as a unit because let's face it, Kompany aside, our entire backline has looked a complete joke.

It's not the defenders, it's the team.mand contrary to popular opinion Kompany wouldn't change much. We were simply dominant offensively in the 1st 5-6 games Kompany played in. No one dared to attack us. Now teams have caught on to our passing frailty at the back. Neither Mangala, Kolarov or Sagna are very comfortable on the ball, when it's in our half. It seems most coaches have instructed their players to charge at our defenders when they are on the ball.

This wasn't happening in the first couple of games we played. The real difference Kompany will make, is that he'll increase the number of defenders comfortable in possession. But even Komps is not as confident as he was 2 years ago. His feet have gotten a little happier. But he is still miles away from Mangala. Demichelis is decent on the ball but doesn't have the speed, agility or graft in him anymore.

There are 2 factors at play here. 1 is City's possession capacity. The intriduction of Kevin and Sterling, both of whom have a better scoring and attacking edge than Nasri and Navas, but are both poor ball possessing midfielders means we will lose the ball more often because both players a are forward thinking and risk takers. That loss of greater possession time means we have to defend more. When you couple that with a defensive line with only one player (Otamendi) who is comfortable on the ball, and an attacking 6 with only one hustle player (Dihno) who fights defensively, what you have is an inconsistent team like City. Neither Aguero, Silva, Yaya, Sterling or Kevin have a natural defensive mentality. Granted Yaya's ambling style makes him look the most obvious, but all the others are equally as bad at it.

And for what it's worth, we are not often getting beat or scored on because our Fullbacks are caught up field. Actually we seem to deal with counters pretty decently. ( perhaps because Ota and Mangala are pretty decent 1v1 defenders). We get scored on more often because the initial passer often from somewhere in midfield often has no pressure on him and easily picks out a crossing player. Simply put it really doesn't matter who the defender is, if a striker runs across field and the pass is timely, he will beat the defender almost every time. We've seen Sterling and Kevin do this to other teams. You simply cannot allow the passer enough time and space to pick out a timely pass. That is a midfield problem. Whether it is Gomis's Goal or The Frenchie for Arsenal or the guy from Stoke, the problem is allowing the perfect pass into the strikers crossing lane. It is simply hard for a defender to stop that.

The reason why it's hard is because you are trying to maintain a line, to defend this well, you'd have to drop beyond your offside line and suddenly keep everyone onside if the ball is delivered to a player on the other side. This too happened to us a few times.

But as far as Mangala is concerned, he simply doesn't have the ball skills to help retain possession at a top club. I honestly can't see how he survives being moved on if Pep rocks up here.

 

[ballinio]

It's not the defenders, it's the team.mand contrary to popular opinion Kompany wouldn't change much. We were simply dominant offensively in the 1st 5-6 games Kompany played in. No one dared to attack us. Now teams have caught on to our passing frailty at the back. Neither Mangala, Kolarov or Sagna are very comfortable on the ball, when it's in our half. It seems most coaches have instructed their players to charge at our defenders when they are on the ball.

This wasn't happening in the first couple of games we played. The real difference Kompany will make, is that he'll increase the number of defenders comfortable in possession. But even Komps is not as confident as he was 2 years ago. His feet have gotten a little happier. But he is still miles away from Mangala. Demichelis is decent on the ball but doesn't have the speed, agility or graft in him anymore.

There are 2 factors at play here. 1 is City's possession capacity. The intriduction of Kevin and Sterling, both of whom have a better scoring and attacking edge than Nasri and Navas, but are both poor ball possessing midfielders means we will lose the ball more often because both players a are forward thinking and risk takers. That loss of greater possession time means we have to defend more. When you couple that with a defensive line with only one player (Otamendi) who is comfortable on the ball, and an attacking 6 with only one hustle player (Dihno) who fights defensively, what you have is an inconsistent team like City. Neither Aguero, Silva, Yaya, Sterling or Kevin have a natural defensive mentality. Granted Yaya's ambling style makes him look the most obvious, but all the others are equally as bad at it.

And for what it's worth, we are not often getting beat or scored on because our Fullbacks are caught up field. Actually we seem to deal with counters pretty decently. ( perhaps because Ota and Mangala are pretty decent 1v1 defenders). We get scored on more often because the initial passer often from somewhere in midfield often has no pressure on him and easily picks out a crossing player. Simply put it really doesn't matter who the defender is, if a striker runs across field and the pass is timely, he will beat the defender almost every time. We've seen Sterling and Kevin do this to other teams. You simply cannot allow the passer enough time and space to pick out a timely pass. That is a midfield problem. Whether it is Gomis's Goal or The Frenchie for Arsenal or the guy from Stoke, the problem is allowing the perfect pass into the strikers crossing lane. It is simply hard for a defender to stop that.

The reason why it's hard is because you are trying to maintain a line, to defend this well, you'd have to drop beyond your offside line and suddenly keep everyone onside if the ball is delivered to a player on the other side. This too happened to us a few times.

But as far as Mangala is concerned, he simply doesn't have the ball skills to help retain possession at a top club. I honestly can't see how he survives being moved on if Pep rocks up here.

Interesting post, a lot of which is true.

 

[blue ranger]

Defensively we are poor and Mangala is definitely partly to blame - but in recent weeks I have noticed how many times KDB gives the ball away and then fails to track back. Against Arsenal the other night gave the ball away about 4/5 times in quick succession.

For all his faults Mourinho deffo got a shift out of hazard. Sterling will work back but KDB does need to start doing the same.

 

[malg]

Thank fuck there appear to be some level heads posting on here now.

 

[ono]

It's not the defenders, it's the team.mand contrary to popular opinion Kompany wouldn't change much. We were simply dominant offensively in the 1st 5-6 games Kompany played in. No one dared to attack us. Now teams have caught on to our passing frailty at the back. Neither Mangala, Kolarov or Sagna are very comfortable on the ball, when it's in our half. It seems most coaches have instructed their players to charge at our defenders when they are on the ball.

This wasn't happening in the first couple of games we played. The real difference Kompany will make, is that he'll increase the number of defenders comfortable in possession. But even Komps is not as confident as he was 2 years ago. His feet have gotten a little happier. But he is still miles away from Mangala. Demichelis is decent on the ball but doesn't have the speed, agility or graft in him anymore.

There are 2 factors at play here. 1 is City's possession capacity. The intriduction of Kevin and Sterling, both of whom have a better scoring and attacking edge than Nasri and Navas, but are both poor ball possessing midfielders means we will lose the ball more often because both players a are forward thinking and risk takers. That loss of greater possession time means we have to defend more. When you couple that with a defensive line with only one player (Otamendi) who is comfortable on the ball, and an attacking 6 with only one hustle player (Dihno) who fights defensively, what you have is an inconsistent team like City. Neither Aguero, Silva, Yaya, Sterling or Kevin have a natural defensive mentality. Granted Yaya's ambling style makes him look the most obvious, but all the others are equally as bad at it.

And for what it's worth, we are not often getting beat or scored on because our Fullbacks are caught up field. Actually we seem to deal with counters pretty decently. ( perhaps because Ota and Mangala are pretty decent 1v1 defenders). We get scored on more often because the initial passer often from somewhere in midfield often has no pressure on him and easily picks out a crossing player. Simply put it really doesn't matter who the defender is, if a striker runs across field and the pass is timely, he will beat the defender almost every time. We've seen Sterling and Kevin do this to other teams. You simply cannot allow the passer enough time and space to pick out a timely pass. That is a midfield problem. Whether it is Gomis's Goal or The Frenchie for Arsenal or the guy from Stoke, the problem is allowing the perfect pass into the strikers crossing lane. It is simply hard for a defender to stop that.

The reason why it's hard is because you are trying to maintain a line, to defend this well, you'd have to drop beyond your offside line and suddenly keep everyone onside if the ball is delivered to a player on the other side. This too happened to us a few times.

But as far as Mangala is concerned, he simply doesn't have the ball skills to help retain possession at a top club. I honestly can't see how he survives being moved on if Pep rocks up here.

You're preaching to the choir mate in regards to our defenders being uncomfortable on the ball. I've read your entire post and agree with it completely. We struggle to put pressure on the opponents once we lose the ball because we are too far apart in possession, assumingly because we try to make the pitch bigger. Incidentally this clearly makes us slower in possession. I was reading somewhere earlier that we move the ball the slowest in the league and that doesn't surprise me. Being more compact would help us offensively and defensively. It would certainly allow us to use Toure without him being such a liability.

The only thing I do disagree with is Kompany not making much difference. By default, teams adopt a different style when he plays, but he also organises very well. The stats speak for themselves. Without checking, I don't think it's coincidence that we concede 1 in 8 with him in and 16 in 8 without him. It's a huge swing.

I totally agree what you say about KDB and Sterling. We miss Nasri, or the Nasri of a couple of years ago.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Defensively we are poor and Mangala is definitely partly to blame - but in recent weeks I have noticed how many times KDB gives the ball away and then fails to track back. Against Arsenal the other night gave the ball away about 4/5 times in quick succession.

For all his faults Mourinho deffo got a shift out of hazard. Sterling will work back but KDB does need to start doing the same.

From what I've seen he looks to be a defensive liability. I'd sooner have him handing around the halfway line well out of the way, and let what will happen in our penalty area just happen!!

 

[mancunial]

Otamendi is the best forward passer of a ball in the club he can pick a forward out on the edge of the opponents penalty area with ease, mangala looked a totally different player alongside Kompany give it time, I've seen many a central defender struggle in the premiership for at least two years after joining, I think he has got potential he needs pushing in training.

 

[ballinio]

Otamendi is the best forward passer of a ball in the club he can pick a forward out on the edge of the opponents penalty area with ease, mangala looked a totally different player alongside Kompany give it time, I've seen many a central defender struggle in the premiership for at least two years after joining, I think he has got potential he needs pushing in training.

He needs pushing alright