Player Topic: Nicolas Otamendi (2015/16)

[Dax777]

I don't agree that Kompany does the same. I think Kompany in his worst shittiest phase did the same, trying to compensate for the chaos around him, & Pellegrini but that is not his game when at his best, which is why we miss him so much. And i don't agree with your assessment of Otamendi's actions so far, but it's all aout opinions.

But i hold out hope Ottamendi can become a solid cb for City, & maybe, like Demichelis, it will suddenly click.

I am on my phone and somehow can't post YouTube videos. But I implore you to go watch the video called Kompany Ultimate defender. It's Kompany doing the very same things Otamendi now does. Including a consistent penchant to jump out of the back line for an early tackle. If you blur that video and the Otamendi one above, you wouldn't be able to tell which one was which.

They are almost identical in play style. Slide taxkes overhead kicks, jumping out to make an early tackle. It seems Kompany has a greater penchant for it than Otamendi does.

It's surreal how similar to Otamendi Kompany 'at his absolute best' looked.

9 of the first 11 tackles show Kompany practically jumping out of defense to try to make an early tackle. And by the way he did miss some of those tackles back then too. So when I say Otamendi has been very good, I'm comparing him to what was the best of Kompany, and he holds up pretty well.

Sure our team defending is a little more porous, the forwards and midfielders are very poor at doing anything defensively. Starting with Aguero and Bony. Both are terrible spearheads for organized defending

The attacking mid 3 aren't much better. Albeit Kevin is actually better than Silva and Sterling at this, even though he gets the most flak and the reputation of being a defensive nob woeker. Then there is the horrendous Yaya amkinging about.

The problem with our defense often long predates the actual defenders and what they have to do. And while they all make mistakes, on the Balance Otamendi has been a net positive.

Frankly he has done the best defending job since Kompany's title winning form under Mancini.

And yes, I understand you disagree, opinions and all, but I implore you to watch the 'Kompany Ultimate defender' video. And tell me if you don't get an Otamendi dejavu feeling. It's eerie to say the least.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I am on my phone and somehow can't post YouTube videos. But I implore you to go watch the video called Kompany Ultimate defender. It's Kompany doing the very same things Otamendi now does. Including a consistent penchant to jump out of the back line for an early tackle. If you blur that video and the Otamendi one above, you wouldn't be able to tell which one was which.

They are almost identical in play style. Slide taxkes overhead kicks, jumping out to make an early tackle. It seems Kompany has a greater penchant for it than Otamendi does.

It's surreal how similar to Otamendi Kompany 'at his absolute best' looks.

9 of the first 11 tackles show Kompany practically jumping out of defense to try to make an early tackle. And by the way he did miss some of those tackles back then too. So when I say Otamendi has been very good, I'm comparing him to what was the best of Kompany, and he holds up pretty well.

Sure our team defending is a little more porous, the forwards and midfielders are very poor at doing anything defensively. Starting with Aguero and Bony. Both are terrible spearheads for organized defending

Revisionist history is all fine and good. The attacking 3 aren't much better. Funny enough Kevin is actually better than Silva and Sterling at this. Then there is the horrendous Yaya amvking about.

The problem with our defense often long predates the actual defenders. And while they all make mistakes, on the Balance Otamendi is a net positive.

Frankly he has done the best defending job since Kompany's title winning form under Mancini.

And yes, I understand you disagree, opinions and all, but I implore you to watch the 'Kompany Ultimate defender' video. And tell me if you don't get an Otamendi dejavu feeling. It's eerie to say the least.

i have no complaints about the defender making an early tackle or stepping out. It's about judgement of getting it right & imo Otamendi has consistently got this wrong at City. It doesn't matter if yo get 10 right but the two wrong. The two wrong cause havoc. You need to get 30 or 40 right & two wrong.

Last season, Kompany had something of a nightmare & his nightmare was pretty much doing what Otamendi is often doing now.

Get it right, it's not a problem. Get it wrong, it's chaos. Also the same can be said of staying on our feet it's 90% the best option.

Kompany's worst moments in his career, are when he dives in & fucks up.

 

[BlueTG]

To say Otamendi's missed tackles don't occur "out of position" is mad. Look at his booking at Arsenal for example. What panicks me half the time is he tries to win balls closer to the half way line and by line, beyond Sagna. Needs to stick to getting some basics right.

 

[Dax777]

i have no complaints about the defender making an early tackle or stepping out. It's about judgement of getting it right & imo Otamendi has consistently got this wrong at City. It doesn't matter if yo get 10 right but the two wrong. The two wrong cause havoc. You need to get 30 or 40 right & two wrong.

Last season, Kompany had something of a nightmare & his nightmare was pretty much doing what Otamendi is often doing now.

Get it right, it's not a problem. Get it wrong, it's chaos. Also the same can be said of staying on our feet it's 90% the best option.

Kompany's worst moments in his career, are when he dives in & fucks up.

Kompany at his best, was getting 10 right and 2 wrong. We just didn't make it the focus of our discussions because 1. We loved him, and 2. On the total, he was a substantial net positive.

I mean, we all new Kompany was prone to one major error every couple of games. Our history is littered with Kompany costing us points. But when you view that against his substantial work, making tackles, intercepting, scoring key goals, blocking goal bound shots and frankly dominating, one concludes net positive for us.

The complaints of his errors only started when he stopped making plays and looked slow 3 seasons ago but kept on making those mistakes.

I think most here have a rosy blue tinted view of Kompany. They remember the good and have forgotten the bad. But often with unliked players, they do the opposite.

All players have both, but on the balance where do they come out. Otamendi and Kompany in 2 seasons have come out a net positive. Quite frankly I'll rank them similarly. Error prone fantastic defenders.

 

[Dax777]

To say Otamendi's missed tackles don't occur "out of position" is mad. Look at his booking at Arsenal for example. What panicks me half the time is he tries to win balls closer to the half way line and by line, beyond Sagna. Needs to stick to getting some basics right.

And Kompany at his best didn't do this?

 

[Neville Kneville]

Kompany at his best, was getting 10 right and 2 wrong. We just didn't make it the focus of our discussions because 1. We loved him, and 2. On the total, he was a substantial net positive.

I mean, we all new Kompany was prone to one major error every couple of games. Our history is littered with Kompany costing us points. But when you view that against his substantial work, making tackles, intercepting, scoring key goals, blocking goal bound shots and frankly dominating, one concludes net positive for us.

The complaints of his errors only started when he stopped making plays and looked slow 3 seasons ago but kept on making those mistakes.

I think most here have a rosy blue tinted view of Kompany. They remember the good and have forgotten the bad. But often with unliked players, they do the opposite.

All players have both, but on the balance where do they come out. Otamendi and Kompany in 2 seasons have come out a net positive. Quite frankly I'll rank them similarly. Error prone fantastic defenders.

Well I'll have to differ on that. Kompany is one of the best defenders I have ever seen & Otamendi isn't in the reconing of anything like it, from my point of view. just the sheer size & presence of Kompany for a start, even if everything else was equal. But last season's Kompany, was not very good at all & yet he looked superb at the start of this season, so i hold out hope for an upturn of otamendi's fortunes on the strength of that.

But for me it's simple, it doesn't matter how many great things your cbs do, if they fuck up a lot. Currently, our cbs fuck up a lot imo, a hell of a lot. If they were 20 years old &filling in, I'd accept it.

But they aren't.

 

[Dax777]

Well I'll have to differ on that. Kompany is one of the best defenders I have ever seen & Otamendi isn't in the reconing of anything like it, from my point of view. just the sheer size & presence of Kompany for a start, even if everything else was equal. But last season's Kompany, was not very good at all & yet he looked superb at the start of this season, so i hold out hope for an upturn of otamendi's fortunes on the strength of that.

But for me it's simple, it doesn't matter how many great things your cbs do, if they fuck up a lot. Currently, our cbs fuck up a lot imo, a hell of a lot. If they were 20 years old &filling in, I'd accept it.

But they aren't.

I agree with your last sentence, yet I wonder if that's on the CBs. I mean how often should you be required to make a plat in one game? 7? 10?. Like I was telling one of my mates, check every team that has a net positive possession advantage for the season. Us, Arsenal, Totheham, Pool, Chelsea. None of them have defenders making half as many plays as ours. And of our defenders, Otamendi makes the most.

So if Otamendi finds himself constantly in 14 dangerous play situations a game. Isn't that a problem somewhere else?

 

[Neville Kneville]

I agree with your last sentence, yet I wonder if that's on the CBs. I mean how often should you be required to make a plat in one game? 7? 10?. Like I was telling one of my mates, check every team that has a net positive possession advantage for the season. Us, Arsenal, Totheham, Pool, Chelsea. None of them have defenders making half as many plays as ours. And of our defenders, Otamendi makes the most.

So if Otamendi finds himself constantly in 14 dangerous play situations a game. Isn't that a problem somewhere else?

Oh, absolutely, there's a lot needs working on elsewhere imo.

 

[City_Sean]

And Kompany at his best didn't do this?

Exactly, the issue when Otamendi tries to win the ball is Mangala isn't intelligent enough to hold the line, and Demichelis is too slow. When we have Kompany our defensive shape is absolutely perfect.

Otamendi shouldn't change how he defends, he's one of the best in the world at doing what he does.

 

[BlueTG]

Exactly, the issue when Otamendi tries to win the ball is Mangala isn't intelligent enough to hold the line, and Demichelis is too slow. When we have Kompany our defensive shape is absolutely perfect.

Otamendi shouldn't change how he defends, he's one of the best in the world at doing what he does.

Mangala is fine at helping control the line when he's not expected the be the "holding" centre back and control two men in the middle. Otamendi should certainly change what he does, for example tracking men from one side of the pitch to the other byline instead of passing him over and him getting back into the hole and player he keeps leaving behind. A shite Sunderland created 3 chances, one a free header, from just this problem. That's why top teams are punishing us.

I do agree however the rest need to improve and that the midfield bar Fernandinho need to alleviate pressure, but he needs to learn to hold a position. Some days I don't know whether he thinks he's playing RCB, LCB, CDM or RB or not.