Player Topic: Vincent Kompany (2015/16)

[Yates]

Kompany for me is the better defender but as a duo it's awesome to see. Kompany is a better leader and organiser and his positioning and defensive awareness is far greater. When a ball is whipped in the box, I'm confident that Kompany will be in the right area to head clear and more often than not, he is. Take Mandzukic's goal, good cross but Kompany for me would have positioned himself better and either partially roadblocked Mandzukic's or cleared the ball. Otamendi shades the 1 on 1 defending and both are quite good on the ball. If Kompany could just stay fit then I feel we've got the best CB duo in the world.

 

[lasereyes]

Actually, the History of English is quite convoluted, and a topic for a different day. And yes, I speak (well sometimes) American English while you speak British English. They are both variations of the same language. And by the way, English wasn't invented :p

As for the annoying question, I'm curious, why is when I started following City relevant? I seem to get this question every time I disagree with folks here, as if it's relevant. For the sake of argument, I started supporting City on August 10 2015. My reason? I threw a dart on an EPl table board, and it landed on the team in 2nd place, I was clearly trying to aim for first but missed by inches. So City it was. Fortunately for me though, I threw the Dart On the 10th, just in time to catch every City telecast and replay this season. So,luckily for me and unluckily for those who hold a differing opinion, this late joining the bandwagon of mine has not impeded my ability to watch, rewatch or even review all existing stats for this season. So there :) Hope that helps.

Yup, thought as much - and explains a lot. It's good that the PL is going more global and it's also good to have you on the bandwagon, but you need to watch a lot more City games to appreciate each players' value to the team. For instance, based on performances this season (aside from the rout against an abjectly awful Newcastle team), you could conclude that that guy Aguero is nothing special. Or based on the Norwich game, that Joe Hart is an accident waiting to happen. See what I mean by small sample sizes?

Btw, Otamendi didn't have a great game today either. Several rash tackles that on another day could have been as costly as his howler in Turin on Wed. Still our second best defender, but still a work-in-progress for the PL and so far, has had almost as many poor games as good games.

And as for "American English", that is quite simply an oxymoron. English is a language that originated in England. There is no such thing as "American English". Americans speak very differently, with little regard for correct sentence construction or grammatical accuracy. It's a major stretch to describe it as the same language.

 

[Dax777]

Yup, thought as much - and explains a lot. It's good that the PL is going more global and it's also good to have you on the bandwagon, but you need to watch a lot more City games to appreciate each players' value to the team. For instance, based on performances this season (aside from the rout against an abjectly awful Newcastle team), you could conclude that that guy Aguero is nothing special. Or based on the Norwich game, that Joe Hart is an accident waiting to happen. See what I mean by small sample sizes?

Btw, Otamendi didn't have a great game today either. Several rash tackles that on another day could have been as costly as his howler in Turin on Wed. Still our second best defender, but still a work-in-progress for the PL and so far, has had almost as many poor games as good games.

And as for "American English", that is quite simply an oxymoron. English is a language that originated in England. There is no such thing as "American English". Americans speak very differently, with little regard for correct sentence construction or grammatical accuracy. It's a major stretch to describe it as the same language.

As of today Komps and Ota have both played about 720 minutes THIS SEASON, and here is where they are statistically.

Tackles: Ota 34. Komps 10
Tackles won: Ota 26. Komps 7
Tackles missed: Ota 8. Komp 3
Success%. Ota 76. Komps 70
Interceptions: Ota 23. Komps 13
Fouls committed: Ota 9. Komps 7
Fouled: Ota 13 Komps 2
Clearances: Ota 60. Komps 43
Blocks: Ota 13. Komps 11
Aerial duels: Ota 49. Komps 21
Aerial won: Ota 31. Komps 17
Aerial lost: Ota 18. Komps 4
Aerial%. Ota 63. Komps 80
Pass%. Ota 86. Komps 85
Pass touches. Ota 476. Komps 423
Bad touches Ota 5. Komps 2
Lost possession: Ota 0. Komps 2
Goals: Ota 1 Komps 2

That's the tale of the stats. It's not very close. So far this season, Otamendi has simply been superior. The video show it, and the stats back it up.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

 

[lasereyes]

As of today Komps and Ota have both played about 720 minutes THIS SEASON, and here is where they are statistically.

Tackles: Ota 34. Komps 10
Tackles won: Ota 26. Komps 7
Tackles missed: Ota 8. Komp 3
Success%. Ota 76. Komps 70
Interceptions: Ota 23. Komps 13
Fouls committed: Ota 9. Komps 7
Fouled: Ota 13 Komps 2
Clearances: Ota 60. Komps 43
Blocks: Ota 13. Komps 11
Aerial duels: Ota 49. Komps 21
Aerial won: Ota 31. Komps 17
Aerial lost: Ota 18. Komps 4
Aerial%. Ota 63. Komps 80
Pass%. Ota 86. Komps 85
Pass touches. Ota 476. Komps 423
Bad touches Ota 5. Komps 2
Lost possession: Ota 0. Komps 2
Goals: Ota 1 Komps 2

That's the tale of the stats. It's not very close. So far this season, Otamendi has simply been superior. The video show it, and the stats back it up.

What's your source for these? Anyway, if they are true, they show that Otamendi misses more tackles, commits more fouls, is worse in the air and has more bad touches. In addition to our conceding way more goals. As I said, you need to spend a lot more time watching City games to understand how we play and how different players fit in. That's my final word on this.

 

[stony]

As of today Komps and Ota have both played about 720 minutes THIS SEASON, and here is where they are statistically.

Tackles: Ota 34. Komps 10
Tackles won: Ota 26. Komps 7
Tackles missed: Ota 8. Komp 3
Success%. Ota 76. Komps 70
Interceptions: Ota 23. Komps 13
Fouls committed: Ota 9. Komps 7
Fouled: Ota 13 Komps 2
Clearances: Ota 60. Komps 43
Blocks: Ota 13. Komps 11
Aerial duels: Ota 49. Komps 21
Aerial won: Ota 31. Komps 17
Aerial lost: Ota 18. Komps 4
Aerial%. Ota 63. Komps 80
Pass%. Ota 86. Komps 85
Pass touches. Ota 476. Komps 423
Bad touches Ota 5. Komps 2
Lost possession: Ota 0. Komps 2
Goals: Ota 1 Komps 2

That's the tale of the stats. It's not very close. So far this season, Otamendi has simply been superior. The video show it, and the stats back it up.

Haha, you could use stats and even make Rooney look good. Vinny has been excellent this season, an absolute rock. Otamendi has been inconsistent, outstanding one minute and a liability the next.
There's no doubt it my mind that he will prove to be an excellent player for us, but he is nowhere near VK's level.

 

[Dax777]

What's your source for these? Anyway, if they are true, they show that Otamendi misses more tackles, commits more fouls, is worse in the air and has more bad touches. In addition to our conceding way more goals. As I said, you need to spend a lot more time watching City games to understand how we play and how different players fit in. That's my final word on this.

I'm almost certain I watch more City games than you do. But that's neither here nor there. As for your conclusions on what the stats say let me correct your flawed conclusion on a few points.

1) Otamendi doesn't miss more tackles, he has more missed tackle than Kompany but Kompany actually misses more tackles. Kompany misses 30℅ of his attempts, while Otamendi misses on 24% of his. That Otamendi has more actual tackles missed, is because he is often in position to try to make a play. Same cannot be said of Komps, in spite of many concluding erroneously that Komps is better positionally. It is clear from how seldom he is around to make a play that its quite unlikely the case that he is better at getting In the right positions.

But if you or anyone else viewing the stat were truly being honest, what really jumps out is how seldomly Kompany is involved in any key defensive plays. Otamendi has more successful tackles won than Kompany has tackles attempted (I.e Tackles won, lost and fouls conceded).That is simply mind boggling.

People like to say you can make stats say anything, and this is true especially when you use spurious stats that are general and mostly attribute it to one player or another. This is how stats are used spuriously.

For example how Hart isn't necessarily having a great game simply because he has a clean sheet. Sure its an indicator. But he very well could have an average game with nothing to do and still walk away with a clean sheet. Similarly he could concede a goal and yet have a stormer. An example of the former will be against WBA in this season's opener. He had a clean sheet, decent game, but very little to do. An example of the latter will be City St Camp Nou last year. He conceded a goal yet played probably the best game by a goalie last year. Thus, when you use goals conceded by a team ( as the stat for claiming a sprcific player has been great) you are threading in those spurious 'making stay say anything you want' zone.

However, it is hard to use individual stats that way. Whether the team plays well or not, you can often tell from individual contribution if a player has been performing superiorly. Nothing in Komps individual stats suggests he has performed better than Otamendi.

Thus, when I say Komps has been competent, its because he was involved in so little defensively in the games he played in. When you See one CB with 26 tackles and his partner with just 7. It's a bit strange that folks think you insane for saying the guy with 4 times the # of tackles has been better.

The guy with 4 times the tackles, Double the interceptions being better is not a stretch under most circumstances. Evem worse, its not as if Komps is head and shoulders better in other defensive areas. Well maybe goals scored. He has doubled Ota's in this category. Unfortunately, its not quite defensive.

Ota pretty much does more of everything else. And on the key defensive categories of tackling and interceptions ( I.e the 2 most important defensive categories) He more than doubles Kompany in both. On the exact same number of minutes no less.

The disparity is so staggering that Otamendi often has more successful completion of most categories than Kompany has attempts in the same category. This means even if Kompany had been successful at every tackle, header, and interception, and clearance he attempted, he'd still have fewer of those in almost all those categories than Ota does.

Even on the issue of fouls, seeing as you want to highlight the very few stats Kompany is superior at. You'd have to look at it in context. Kompany has committed fouls as often as he has won the ball back. 7 wins, 7 fouls. As far as tackling goes, that is bang average at best and most who are being honest would consider that quite poor. All together Komps has won City the ball back 7 times via tackling while losing out on 10 attempts. That puts his succesful retrieval rate at 41% of his attempts. This doesn't even begin to address tje fact that he is so seldomly involved in trying to retrieve the balll in the first place. He has attemted to win the ball back 17 times in 720/ minutes. Of which he is successful only 40% of the time.

Like I said originally almost 4 pages ago, so far this season he has been competent. Truth be told. and this comes from actially wsyching the game, the dirt of actual activity defensively is partly due to a lack of offensive impetus by the first few opponents he faced. But that only accounts for some of it, the other part simply is that Komp just doesn't make as many plays defensively (attempted or completed).

The sad part here is that this is now beginning to sound like some anti-Kompany rant.
It is not. It's simply setting the facts straight. Otamendi has simply made so.many more plays for us this season that it is mind boggling that some find the idea that I think he is better than Kompany this season idiotic and feel the need to insult me, attempt to belittle my support, knowledge or views.

Yes, the facts can lie, and they can be manipulated one way or the other, but when its this overwhelmingly in.one direction, it more likely the case that it's not lying. And even if you still believe your eyes, which you should, the least you can do is grant that others could legitimately disagree without being idiots. Especially in light of how overwhelmingly one-sided the stats are against your position. Regardless of whether you think they do or don't paint the full picture.

Frankly, if you gave Kompany's stats to Otamendi and vice versa and someone tried to argue Ota was still better I wouldn't be surprised if a ban would have followed for wummingi.

Like I have said before and will restate again, as far as this season is concerned, Otamendi has been our best CB so far. And Kompany has been competent defensively next to him. Nothing I have watched, often multiple times, nor anything collated Opta stats have shown disputes or even oppose this belief.

And that's my last word on the issue.

 

[GX Blue]

What game are we hoping he is back for?

That 'We play for you' vid they play before games needs tweeking as half the players they use in that are always injured so they dont play too much for us really do they?

 

[Phil1]

I'm almost certain I watch more City games than you do. But that's neither here nor there. As for your conclusions on what the stats say let me correct your flawed conclusion on a few points.

1) Otamendi doesn't miss more tackles, he has more missed tackle than Kompany but Kompany actually misses more tackles. Kompany misses 30℅ of his attempts, while Otamendi misses on 24% of his. That Otamendi has more actual tackles missed, is because he is often in position to try to make a play. Same cannot be said of Komps, in spite of many concluding erroneously that Komps is better positionally. It is clear from how seldom he is around to make a play that its quite unlikely the case that he is better at getting In the right positions.

But if you or anyone else viewing the stat were truly being honest, what really jumps out is how seldomly Kompany is involved in any key defensive plays. Otamendi has more successful tackles won than Kompany has tackles attempted (I.e Tackles won, lost and fouls conceded).That is simply mind boggling.

People like to say you can make stats say anything, and this is true especially when you use spurious stats that are general and mostly attribute it to one player or another. This is how stats are used spuriously.

For example how Hart isn't necessarily having a great game simply because he has a clean sheet. Sure its an indicator. But he very well could have an average game with nothing to do and still walk away with a clean sheet. Similarly he could concede a goal and yet have a stormer. An example of the former will be against WBA in this season's opener. He had a clean sheet, decent game, but very little to do. An example of the latter will be City St Camp Nou last year. He conceded a goal yet played probably the best game by a goalie last year. Thus, when you use goals conceded by a team ( as the stat for claiming a sprcific player has been great) you are threading in those spurious 'making stay say anything you want' zone.

However, it is hard to use individual stats that way. Whether the team plays well or not, you can often tell from individual contribution if a player has been performing superiorly. Nothing in Komps individual stats suggests he has performed better than Otamendi.

Thus, when I say Komps has been competent, its because he was involved in so little defensively in the games he played in. When you See one CB with 26 tackles and his partner with just 7. It's a bit strange that folks think you insane for saying the guy with 4 times the # of tackles has been better.

The guy with 4 times the tackles, Double the interceptions being better is not a stretch under most circumstances. Evem worse, its not as if Komps is head and shoulders better in other defensive areas. Well maybe goals scored. He has doubled Ota's in this category. Unfortunately, its not quite defensive.

Ota pretty much does more of everything else. And on the key defensive categories of tackling and interceptions ( I.e the 2 most important defensive categories) He more than doubles Kompany in both. On the exact same number of minutes no less.

The disparity is so staggering that Otamendi often has more successful completion of most categories than Kompany has attempts in the same category. This means even if Kompany had been successful at every tackle, header, and interception, and clearance he attempted, he'd still have fewer of those in almost all those categories than Ota does.

Even on the issue of fouls, seeing as you want to highlight the very few stats Kompany is superior at. You'd have to look at it in context. Kompany has committed fouls as often as he has won the ball back. 7 wins, 7 fouls. As far as tackling goes, that is bang average at best and most who are being honest would consider that quite poor. All together Komps has won City the ball back 7 times via tackling while losing out on 10 attempts. That puts his succesful retrieval rate at 41% of his attempts. This doesn't even begin to address tje fact that he is so seldomly involved in trying to retrieve the balll in the first place. He has attemted to win the ball back 17 times in 720/ minutes. Of which he is successful only 40% of the time.

Like I said originally almost 4 pages ago, so far this season he has been competent. Truth be told. and this comes from actially wsyching the game, the dirt of actual activity defensively is partly due to a lack of offensive impetus by the first few opponents he faced. But that only accounts for some of it, the other part simply is that Komp just doesn't make as many plays defensively (attempted or completed).

The sad part here is that this is now beginning to sound like some anti-Kompany rant.
It is not. It's simply setting the facts straight. Otamendi has simply made so.many more plays for us this season that it is mind boggling that some find the idea that I think he is better than Kompany this season idiotic and feel the need to insult me, attempt to belittle my support, knowledge or views.

Yes, the facts can lie, and they can be manipulated one way or the other, but when its this overwhelmingly in.one direction, it more likely the case that it's not lying. And even if you still believe your eyes, which you should, the least you can do is grant that others could legitimately disagree without being idiots. Especially in light of how overwhelmingly one-sided the stats are against your position. Regardless of whether you think they do or don't paint the full picture.

Frankly, if you gave Kompany's stats to Otamendi and vice versa and someone tried to argue Ota was still better I wouldn't be surprised if a ban would have followed for wummingi.

Like I have said before and will restate again, as far as this season is concerned, Otamendi has been our best CB so far. And Kompany has been competent defensively next to him. Nothing I have watched, often multiple times, nor anything collated Opta stats have shown disputes or even oppose this belief.

And that's my last word on the issue.

All those words and yet you're still wrong. Nice one champ.

 

[I Hart Man City]

What game are we hoping he is back for?

That 'We play for you' vid they play before games needs tweeking as half the players they use in that are always injured so they dont play too much for us really do they?

If by tweaked you mean binned entirely then I wholeheartedly agree.