Player topic : Yaya Toure (2015/16)

[shemnel]

Silva doesn't drop back and you never blamed Silva for any goal. If you don't like Yaya go and hug transformer

that is some suggestion.

 

[fatbloke]

'we have already established that....' to that I say bravo for your good sense of humour.
'why does it matter if Silva doesn't play
Yaya's role' I couldn't understand your point. So i'd appreciate if you could shed more light on that

My point is that there's different ways to play and different ways to win, with or without Yaya. Other teams manage it somehow.

I just don't understand how you or anyone else can advocate playing the same way with the same players making the same mistakes time and time again, then expect a different result at the end of it.

 

[PragueBlue]

My point is that there's different ways to play and different ways to win, with or without Yaya. Other teams manage it somehow.

I just don't understand how you or anyone else can advocate playing the same way with the same players making the same mistakes time and time again, then expect a different result at the end of it.

Yaya played at Seville away and we played very effectively there with a much deeper back line and compact shape, not leaving so much space between defence and midfield. He played against BM as well and again we played well 2nd half with a much higher back line but with still the compact shape. He was an ever present during our flying start to the season. He really isn't the problem and his absences should have shown that we aren't a better team without him.

I'd be interested in hearing how you think we should play (with or without Toure). We won't be an effective pressing team (with or without Toure) because it isn't only Yaya not doing it, it's half of the team.

 

[ojeme]

Yaya played at Seville away and we played very effectively there with a much deeper back line and compact shape, not leaving so much space between defence and midfield. He played against BM as well and again we played well 2nd half with a much higher back line but with still the compact shape. He was an ever present during our flying start to the season. He really isn't the problem and his absences should have shown that we aren't a better team without him.
I'd be interested in hearing how you think we should play (with or without Toure). We won't be an effective pressing team (with or without Toure) because it isn't only Yaya not doing it, it's half of the team.

wanted to reply till I saw your post

 

[Dax777]

wanted to reply till I saw your post

Yup, KB hit on the point too many zeem to purposely ignore. It is not just Yaya!

It is Yaya, Aguero, Silva, Kevin, Sterling, Bony and Nando. They are all shitty at pressuring effectively. Always running at the ball, long after it has reached it's intended destination.

This attitude, kills all the industry you get from Dihno and Delph.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Yaya has for 5 years been our main passer, he has linked defence and attack and more than anyone when it has really counted he has stepped up. Showed it again big time vs BMG and Sevilla

I have thought for years those who criticise him in an OTT way neither watch City sober not understand football at all!

 

[fatbloke]

Yup, KB hit on the point too many zeem to purposely ignore. It is not just Yaya!

It is Yaya, Aguero, Silva, Kevin, Sterling, Bony and Nando. They are all shitty at pressuring effectively. Always running at the ball, long after it has reached it's intended destination.

This attitude, kills all the industry you get from Dihno and Delph.

The difference is all those with maybe the exception of Aguero (in the short term because of the hamstring injuries) are capable of playing a high pressing style, Yaya hasn't got the energy levels, agility or mental desire and to my mind it causes others to hesitate because they feel like they can't trust him to cover them if they get beaten.

I personally would go with two holding in Fernandinho and Delph with a three of De Bruyne, Silva and Sterling interchanging behind Aguero. Let Fernandinho and Delph set the tempo, be more aggressive, be quicker to the second balls and just don't let other teams play. We're too soft and easy to get at especially on the counter attack, the extra pace and energy would limit our chances of getting caught. In possession we've already seen Fernandinho is more than capable of getting into the box and scoring goals when the shackles are released and Delph makes some very good runs off the ball and creates space for Silva by doing so. The whole mentality changes if you have two naturally aggressive ball winners, just look how the fans have taken to Zabaleta, he's not the best right back in terms of ability but I wouldn't swap him for anyone.

Toure is the perfect player to bring on because he can kill the pace of a game with his passing against tired teams and equally if we're struggling to break a team down he could give us a different option but I just think playing him from the start is absolutely killing us against either high pressing or possession based teams and its only going to get worse the older and more tired he gets through a tough season.

 

[cleavers]

Yaya played at Seville away and we played very effectively there with a much deeper back line and compact shape, not leaving so much space between defence and midfield. He played against BM as well and again we played well 2nd half with a much higher back line but with still the compact shape. He was an ever present during our flying start to the season. He really isn't the problem and his absences should have shown that we aren't a better team without him.

I'd be interested in hearing how you think we should play (with or without Toure). We won't be an effective pressing team (with or without Toure) because it isn't only Yaya not doing it, it's half of the team.

Excellent post.

Yaya is struggling when asked to chase round the pitch, so don't expect that of him, especially in games like Arsenal away. Play him in the position we bought him originally, the DM, in front of the 2 CB's, where he can drop in and make three CB's if necessary, save his legs. Let others do the chasing/running in the main, both Fernandhino and Delph have the energy, and Yaya will still got forward in games, just less often, and he'll be more effective to the team. Its not like he doesn't tackle, he does, but he's out of the game if he doesn't win the ball, so doing it in front of the 2 CB's would be more effective, and it might stop the CB's diving in 25 yards too far up the pitch, and getting caught. We could also get another 2 years out of him, if we use him correctly.

 

[PragueBlue]

The difference is all those with maybe the exception of Aguero (in the short term because of the hamstring injuries) are capable of playing a high pressing style, Yaya hasn't got the energy levels, agility or mental desire and to my mind it causes others to hesitate because they feel like they can't trust him to cover them if they get beaten.

I personally would go with two holding in Fernandinho and Delph with a three of De Bruyne, Silva and Sterling interchanging behind Aguero. Let Fernandinho and Delph set the tempo, be more aggressive, be quicker to the second balls and just don't let other teams play. We're too soft and easy to get at especially on the counter attack, the extra pace and energy would limit our chances of getting caught. In possession we've already seen Fernandinho is more than capable of getting into the box and scoring goals when the shackles are released and Delph makes some very good runs off the ball and creates space for Silva by doing so. The whole mentality changes if you have two naturally aggressive ball winners, just look how the fans have taken to Zabaleta, he's not the best right back in terms of ability but I wouldn't swap him for anyone.

Toure is the perfect player to bring on because he can kill the pace of a game with his passing against tired teams and equally if we're struggling to break a team down he could give us a different option but I just think playing him from the start is absolutely killing us against either high pressing or possession based teams and its only going to get worse the older and more tired he gets through a tough season.

It would be interesting to see how a 2 of Delph and Fernandinho would do but I suspect they may struggle against pressing teams as they don't seem to have the passing range and vision to escape the press. I also doubt that some of those you mention can press effectively but we will see at some stage I guess.

I believe one of our problems has been in trying to integrate both Sterling and KDB. Both are very good players but often play a high risk, high reward sort of game (especially KDB) which means we lose possession more often than we typically have done over the last few seasons with 'safer' players like Navas, Toure, Silva and Nasri. This frequently leaves us with too many players forward and too many gaps for the opposition to play in.

I think the key is keeping a compact shape and not leaving much space between our defence and midfield, be that with a high line or a deeper line.

 

[Dax777]

It would be interesting to see how a 2 of Delph and Fernandinho would do but I suspect they may struggle against pressing teams as they don't seem to have the passing range and vision to escape the press. I also doubt that some of those you mention can press effectively but we will see at some stage I guess.

I believe one of our problems has been in trying to integrate both Sterling and KDB. Both are very good players but often play a high risk, high reward sort of game (especially KDB) which means we lose possession more often than we typically have done over the last few seasons with 'safer' players like Navas, Toure, Silva and Nasri. This frequently leaves us with too many players forward and too many gaps for the opposition to play in.

I think the key is keeping a compact shape and not leaving much space between our defence and midfield, be that with a high line or a deeper line.

I mean, Fatbloke saying 'authoritatively' that others except Yaya can do something they've all collective failed to do shows the very bias I speak of. None of those mentioned have shown a consistent capacity to pressure effectively. And claiming they don't because they fear Yay wouldn't cover for them, is ridiculous at best. Seeing as their pressure requires no necessary cover from Yaya or anyone else for that matter. You simply need to close down your player before the ball comes to him and negate him as an option for the defender on the ball. If all 3 forward players do this in concert, the player on the ball is forced to punt it forward and just hope.