Political relations between UK-EU

Vic said:
As I said, most Labour voters and Labour members wanted to Remain.

Don't blame me for facts.
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From You Gov

Only half (52%) of those who voted leave in 2016 and Labour in 2017, stuck with the Labour party in 2019. A third (33%) moved directly to the Conservatives, while 6% voted for the Brexit party.

Labour were able to hold onto 8 in 10 (79%) of their 2016 Remain voters, although 12% deserted the party in favour of the Liberal Democrats.

The Conservatives did a much better job than Labour of retaining their 2017 voters. Some 85% of those who voted Conservative in 2017 stuck with them in 2019, compared to 72% of Labour voters.

The only party with a better retention of 2017 voters was the SNP, who kept hold of 87% of their past voters.

Brexit realignment was already a huge factor in the 2017 general election, with 55% of Remain voters voting Labour and 65% of Leavers voting Conservative.

This time around in the 2019 election the Conservatives managed to boost their vote share amongst Leave voters to three quarters (74%) while the Labour Party actually reduced their share of Remain voters to just under HALF (49%). This fall came mainly at the hands of the Liberal Democrats, who increased their vote share amongst Remain voters to 21%, compared to 12% in 2017.

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The ambiguity of Labour's position forced upon the party by the right wing cost the party half of their leave voters and 12% of the social liberals who forced the change then voted Lib Dem.

Thankfully Labour has the majority support of those under 40 many who were enthused to join the party and vote for the party because it had a Socialistic manifesto. So all hope is not lost, just need to get rid of Starmer and get a Left wing leader, take advantage of being outside the EU and ending the damaging economic policies of the neo-liberals. Jobs a good un.

Then Labour can start fixing the mess the Tories have made of Brexit
 
Rascal said:
From You Gov

Only half (52%) of those who voted leave in 2016 and Labour in 2017, stuck with the Labour party in 2019. A third (33%) moved directly to the Conservatives, while 6% voted for the Brexit party.

Labour were able to hold onto 8 in 10 (79%) of their 2016 Remain voters, although 12% deserted the party in favour of the Liberal Democrats.

The Conservatives did a much better job than Labour of retaining their 2017 voters. Some 85% of those who voted Conservative in 2017 stuck with them in 2019, compared to 72% of Labour voters.

The only party with a better retention of 2017 voters was the SNP, who kept hold of 87% of their past voters.

Brexit realignment was already a huge factor in the 2017 general election, with 55% of Remain voters voting Labour and 65% of Leavers voting Conservative.

This time around in the 2019 election the Conservatives managed to boost their vote share amongst Leave voters to three quarters (74%) while the Labour Party actually reduced their share of Remain voters to just under HALF (49%). This fall came mainly at the hands of the Liberal Democrats, who increased their vote share amongst Remain voters to 21%, compared to 12% in 2017.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The ambiguity of Labour's position forced upon the party by the right wing cost the party half of their leave voters and 12% of the social liberals who forced the change then voted Lib Dem.

Thankfully Labour has the majority support of those under 40 many who were enthused to join the party and vote for the party because it had a Socialistic manifesto. So all hope is not lost, just need to get rid of Starmer and get a Left wing leader, take advantage of being outside the EU and ending the damaging economic policies of the neo-liberals. Jobs a good un.

Then Labour can start fixing the mess the Tories have made of Brexit
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you're grasping the reality here.

If you've looked at yougov to find this bit, "Only half (52%) of those who voted leave in 2016 and Labour in 2017, stuck with the Labour party in 2019", then you must be aware (or skipped past) of the bit that says the people mentioned there are a minority of Labour voters, and most Labour voters voted Remain, including the people you finished with, the under 40s who liked a (more) socialist manifesto. They did not want Brexit - and if they thought being a socialist meant sharing your "socialist" view on Brexit, it would turn them against socialism.

Argue the case by all means, but don't pretend it was anything like a majority view within the party or with Labour voters generally. You'd struggle to find more than a handful of constituencies, even in the "red wall", where most Labour voters voted to Leave.
 
Vic said:
I'm not sure if you're grasping the reality here.

If you've looked at yougov to find this bit, "Only half (52%) of those who voted leave in 2016 and Labour in 2017, stuck with the Labour party in 2019", then you must be aware (or skipped past) of the bit that says the people mentioned there are a minority of Labour voters, and most Labour voters voted Remain, including the people you finished with, the under 40s who liked a (more) socialist manifesto. They did not want Brexit - and if they thought being a socialist meant sharing your "socialist" view on Brexit, it would turn them against socialism.

Argue the case by all means, but don't pretend it was anything like a majority view within the party or with Labour voters generally. You'd struggle to find more than a handful of constituencies, even in the "red wall", where most Labour voters voted to Leave.
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I don't know figures but I'm guessing Bury South did?
 
Vic said:
I'm not sure if you're grasping the reality here.

If you've looked at yougov to find this bit, "Only half (52%) of those who voted leave in 2016 and Labour in 2017, stuck with the Labour party in 2019", then you must be aware (or skipped past) of the bit that says the people mentioned there are a minority of Labour voters, and most Labour voters voted Remain, including the people you finished with, the under 40s who liked a (more) socialist manifesto. They did not want Brexit - and if they thought being a socialist meant sharing your "socialist" view on Brexit, it would turn them against socialism.

Argue the case by all means, but don't pretend it was anything like a majority view within the party or with Labour voters generally. You'd struggle to find more than a handful of constituencies, even in the "red wall", where most Labour voters voted to Leave.
Click to expand...
I skipped past nothing and i am not pretending anything.

Although you have not produced no evidence to back up your points. You are more than welcome to show me.

What will not change though is my absolute conviction that we need a Democratic Socialist government that can make a better fist of brexit and get rid of the damaging neo liberal economics we as a nation have been subjected to for a generation.
 
Ric said:
It was just a joke, lighten up.
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Hey - did you miss the ;-) at the end of the post?

I am one of those in a very chilled place - and I have seen other Leavers trying to have some banter

I would suggest that it is others on this thread that need to 'lighten up'
 
Vic said:
I'm not sure if you're grasping the reality here.

If you've looked at yougov to find this bit, "Only half (52%) of those who voted leave in 2016 and Labour in 2017, stuck with the Labour party in 2019", then you must be aware (or skipped past) of the bit that says the people mentioned there are a minority of Labour voters, and most Labour voters voted Remain, including the people you finished with, the under 40s who liked a (more) socialist manifesto. They did not want Brexit - and if they thought being a socialist meant sharing your "socialist" view on Brexit, it would turn them against socialism.

Argue the case by all means, but don't pretend it was anything like a majority view within the party or with Labour voters generally. You'd struggle to find more than a handful of constituencies, even in the "red wall", where most Labour voters voted to Leave.
Click to expand...
They’re delusional then to be fair.

Me and Rascal don’t get on and have each other on ignore, which I was asked to do, but we at least agree in some areas of what certain things mean.

I can’t see his post but he has been right in the past that socialism cannot be achieved without either leaving the EU or complete and total reform, which looked less likely than Sheffield Utd winning the league.

The EU is very much capitalist and semi-liberal, it’s a right of centre political bloc.

Whilst I’m not socially liberal I do think regulated capitalism is the best economic position generally speaking and it’s why I support us being in the EU, as well as it making sense to rival China and the US as a combined European superpower, only with more morals. Also the fact it was hugely beneficial to our economy.

However, if you’re an old Trot like Rasc, the EU is the enemy. It’s globalisation like never before, only over a continent rather than the entire world which Bob wants and there are specific regulations against socialist policies.
 
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