Political relations between UK-EU

[BobKowalski]

But take Libya as an example of where they’re coming from; the EU has been criticised by other NATO countries in their lack of action when it comes to stabilising Libya. It seems Turkey are putting greater plans in action to help the plight of Libya when it’s the EU where these refugees are [eventually] coming to.

And rightly criticised, the actions of Frontex in Greece have also been condemned.

France and Italy have been meddling and fucking up Libya for years now. Absolute shitshow, especially as both France and Italy were operating opposing strategies based on their perceived self interests.

 

[bugsyblue]

You could always migrate to Europe.

I could yes. Something to consider.

 

[hilts]

Splitting hairs now.

You claimed the place was crowded, it obviously isn't and I am sure the monarchy could spare a lot of the unused land they own that is private and so isn't any us peasants beautiful countryside as we are barred from it, or the defunct brownfill sites that sit idle, or the stateley himes tgat take up acres for at time.one dodderimg old lord to live in, give the **** a one bedroomed flat and put the place to better use

The cities are are crowded and every bit of green in then seems to get built on, while vast areas of the country are left untouched and unavailable to it's citizens

Think about your last paragraph you might realise you have made a point against FOM, how you got some likes for that is quite amusing.

 

[BobKowalski]

You’ve just argued my point for me. If millions are willing to travel in danger to Europe, without a visa, what would happen if it wasn’t dangerous to do so, and you could live where ever you wanted at the drop of a hat?

It’s not hysterical fear, if it was, at least one first world country on the planet would adopt your policy, but they don’t, because it’s lunacy.

People are fleeing war zones. Whether you have an strict immigration policy or no immigration policy, they are going to flee and the numbers are such it would make a country’s immigration policy irrelevant. That is a humanitarian crisis, not a discussion on immigration.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

You stated opposition to Freedom of movement so I assumed opposition to a Single Market which requires FoM. You oppose greater integration, but without a common rule book, harmonised regulation and handing elements of political control to a body to oversee this, you cannot have a Single Market.

Two other points. I distrust the use of the phrase ‘genuine refugees’ as I always suspect the qualification for ‘genuine’ would be such to make being a refugee all but impossible.

Erasmus was a scheme that facilitated children to travel and study. Scrapping it, and being comfortable with doing so, and then trotting out platitudes of how it was done back in the day is the very definition of blinkered thinking. ‘Oh, look, it was a bit more difficult back then but we still did it, what are you moaning about?’ Well, I prefer to live in a country that facilitates and values it rather than tosses it in the bin with barely a thought.

This Turing scheme, ironically named after someone persecuted for being gay, something else we used to do ‘back in the day’, doesn’t even exist. So why not do both? Run Erasmus and put together our own program? Best of both worlds. And do you really think this Govt is going to put this Turing program in place or gives a fuck?

I'll grant you that scrapping Erasmus seemed a bit petty. But you make it sound like no one will ever get the chance to do a year at an overseas university ever again. I've made it clear the fact it doesn't exist anymore doesn't stop anyone from going to any university anywhere in the world. It just makes it a little more difficult for some to go to some universities.

Maybe the institutions themselves, say the Russell Group, could come to reciprocal arrangements with like-minded universities. Rotary Club, for example, had a scheme which my cousin took advantage of to do a year in Sam Diego where she met her (soon-to-be-exj husband. Don't know if they still do but things will change and adapt. That's the way of the world. We closed all the coal mines but we still manage to generate electricity. We don't hunt animals anymore but we still manage to eat.

 

[Ban-jani]

People are fleeing war zones. Whether you have an strict immigration policy or no immigration policy, they are going to flee and the numbers are such it would make a country’s immigration policy irrelevant. That is a humanitarian crisis, not a discussion on immigration.

There are a significant number coming too from outside war zones but the wars have contributed massively to it, yes.

I agree that those fleeing war is a different argument and the 1st world does have a duty to give refugee status to genuine refugees.

I still maintain that offering visas to anyone on the planet that wants one would result in chaos and is never going to be a policy that gains enough votes.

It’s Utopianism, which is never a good idea.

 

[urban genie]

Think about your last paragraph you might realise you have made a point against FOM, how you got some likes for that is quite amusing.

I have never advocated FOM though so what is your point?

And cities are crowded as they are cities and tend to attract higer populations, I never said overcrowded though which Manchester certainly isn't

 

[Cheesy]

It’s what some people on the left call everyone to the right of Tony Blair.

That’s the problem we have.

The poster who used it on this thread genuinely thinks Priti Patel is on a par with Heinrich Himmler.

This is the issue with our politics.

Perversely, that poster and others like him are less tolerant of anyone with a different point of view to them than most of those they would describe as 'far right'.

 

[BobKowalski]

I'll grant you that scrapping Erasmus seemed a bit petty. But you make it sound like no one will ever get the chance to do a year at an overseas university ever again. I've made it clear the fact it doesn't exist anymore doesn't stop anyone from going to any university anywhere in the world. It just makes it a little more difficult for some to go to some universities.

Maybe the institutions themselves, say the Russell Group, could come to reciprocal arrangements with like-minded universities. Rotary Club, for example, had a scheme which my cousin took advantage of to do a year in Sam Diego where she met her (soon-to-be-exj husband. Don't know if they still do but things will change and adapt. That's the way of the world. We closed all the coal mines but we still manage to generate electricity. We don't hunt animals anymore but we still manage to eat.

The decision was petty, it was casual vandalism because no value is placed on a scheme like Erasmus, and if as a country we no longer value such a scheme then what does it say about this country.

You can actually ‘Brexit’ and do it in a way that doesn’t make it seem we are full of small minded arseholes. Unfortunately, or perhaps inevitably, we chose the small minded arseholes route.

We place no value on our links with Europe, we see no merit in the European project, we sustain ourselves on the notion that the European project, the Euro must and will fail. We have no vision of ourselves other than being opposed to a ‘doomed project’. It is an article of faith.

The question that remains, the unspoken fear for this country, is what if it doesn’t fail? And if it doesn’t fail, what does that say about our lack of imagination, our lack of vision?

Which brings me back to my original question. What is our vision? What does the UK want to do? What does it want to be?

 

[hilts]

I have never advocated FOM though so what is your point?

And cities are crowded as they are cities and tend to attract higer populations, I never said overcrowded though which Manchester certainly isn't

I’m glad you don’t want FOM as it is a policy for idiots, it can never be argued that not having control of something is better than having control.

Cities are crowded but not over crowded and Manchester isn’t over crowded

Err okay:-)