Political relations between UK-EU

[Ban-jani]

This thread gets more and more surreal.

Now it’s got people furiously debating the obligations arising under a contract nobody has read and the terms of which are not clear.

Still, I expect rag cafe is quite good this morning.

What is surreal is the defence of the EU’s behaviour. What we are saying is irrelevant of what’s in the contract, blocking vaccines reaching Britain over a contract dispute with a company is unethical and a bullying tactic.

I couldn’t care less what AZ have in their contract, it doesn’t justify the means.

 

[Ban-jani]

Dope? How do you think I found it?

I posted it because you claimed the article showed that "The UK, Canada and the US were in the top bracket, the rest of Europe the one below". The article doesn't say that and the picture certainly says different.

And for the third time - and I assume I have read it right - it shows the number of research "calls" with no indication of the funding available.

The map shows it, how can you not see that? The UK, US and Canada are in a darker shade because they’ve done the most. A 6 year old could see that.

In Europe, the largest national source of funding is from the UK

Have you considered that higher calls = more funding?

 

[meltonblue]

This thread gets more and more surreal.

Now it’s got people furiously debating the obligations arising under a contract nobody has read and the terms of which are not clear.

Still, I expect rag cafe is quite good this morning.

Yep completely agree.

 

[BobKowalski]

What is surreal is the defence of the EU’s behaviour. What we are saying is irrelevant of what’s in the contract, blocking vaccines reaching Britain over a contract dispute with a company is unethical and a bullying tactic.

I couldn’t care less what AZ have in their contract, it doesn’t justify the means.

You are aware that the UK has banned the export of over 170 medicines “needed for British patients” included dozens reportedly used in treating covid patients. (source BBC).

Also the EU hasn’t actually blocked any vaccines. The problem with banning vaccines is that there are more than one, no one yet knows which is the most effective and the components are often sourced from other countries.

What no country wants is to have a surplus of the least effective vaccine and by shut out of the supply of the most effective one. This is way cooperation between countries, and not competition, is in everyone’s interests in the long run.

 

[Ban-jani]

You are aware that the UK has banned the export of over 170 medicines “needed for British patients” included dozens reportedly used in treating covid patients. (source BBC).

Also the EU hasn’t actually blocked any vaccines. The problem with banning vaccines is that there are more than one, no one yet knows which is the most effective and the components are often sourced from other countries.

What no country wants is to have a surplus of the least effective vaccine and by shut out of the supply of the most effective one. This is way cooperation between countries, and not competition, is in everyone’s interests in the long run.

Do you have a link to the first part?

Ive googled it and only seen EU partisan websites discussing it, as of yesterday and not last year when it apparently happened.

Also, if it is true, whilst I am not comfortable with it, the medication they stopped from being exported wasn’t already paid for up front by the EU, as part of a mass supply contract agreement. I wouldn’t have much of a problem if the EU did the same, but these vaccines aren’t theirs to do such a thing.

Yes, there is more than one vaccine but the EU is threatening, note I said threatening, they haven’t yet and likely won’t because of international backlash, to block both the Pfizer and Oxford vaccine.

The BBC has said the bigger of the two issues is with the Pfizer one, as the AZ one is mainly being manufactured in the UK.

 

[Chris in London]

What is surreal is the defence of the EU’s behaviour. What we are saying is irrelevant of what’s in the contract, blocking vaccines reaching Britain over a contract dispute with a company is unethical and a bullying tactic.

I couldn’t care less what AZ have in their contract, it doesn’t justify the means.

“Unethical”?

In what way is making a contractor abide with the terms of the contract they have - IF that’s what the contract says - unethical?

What could be more ethical than sticking to your agreement?

It’s a contractual dispute. You are down the rabbit hole when you talk about what’s unethical. Why do you think we have contracts?

 

[stonerblue]

This thread gets more and more surreal.

Now it’s got people furiously debating the obligations arising under a contract nobody has read and the terms of which are not clear.

Still, I expect rag cafe is quite good this morning.

Managed to get the brexiteers back onto the thread though.

 

[jaseirai]

Do you have a link to the first part?

Ive googled it and only seen EU partisan websites discussing it, as of yesterday and not last year when it apparently happened.

Also, if it is true, whilst I am not comfortable with it, the medication they stopped from being exported wasn’t already paid for up front by the EU, as part of a mass supply contract agreement. I wouldn’t have much of a problem if the EU did the same, but these vaccines aren’t theirs to do such a thing.

Yes, there is more than one vaccine but the EU is threatening, note I said threatening, they haven’t yet and likely won’t because of international backlash, to block both the Pfizer and Oxford vaccine.

The BBC has said the bigger of the two issues is with the Pfizer one, as the AZ one is mainly being manufactured in the UK.

There'll be no export ban.

Croda to play key role in Covid vaccine as supplier to Pfizer

East Yorkshire headquartered smart science specialist has 'reprioritised investment, resources and other projects across the group' to meet demand

www.business-live.co.uk

 

[Ban-jani]

“Unethical”?

In what way is making a contractor abide with the terms of the contract they have - IF that’s what the contract says - unethical?

What could be more ethical than sticking to your agreement?

It’s a contractual dispute. You are down the rabbit hole when you talk about what’s unethical. Why do you think we have contracts?

That’s not what they are doing is it? They’re not mounting a legal challenge regarding the contract.

They are basically saying that if Pfizer and AZ can’t deliver to their contracted amount then they are going to block them doing the same to the UK.

It is unethical.

 

[BobKowalski]

Do you have a link to the first part?

Ive googled it and only seen EU partisan websites discussing it, as of yesterday and not last year when it apparently happened.

Also, if it is true, whilst I am not comfortable with it, the medication they stopped from being exported wasn’t already paid for up front by the EU, as part of a mass supply contract agreement. I wouldn’t have much of a problem if the EU did the same, but these vaccines aren’t theirs to do such a thing.

Yes, there is more than one vaccine but the EU is threatening, note I said threatening, they haven’t yet and likely won’t because of international backlash, to block both the Pfizer and Oxford vaccine.

The BBC has said the bigger of the two issues is with the Pfizer one, as the AZ one is mainly being manufactured in the UK.

‘EU partisan websites‘...what the hell is an EU partisan website? The source was Katya Adler the BBC Brussels correspondent. I said the other day that countries get defensive in a crisis and I imagine the UK is not the only country to block medical exports.

But this is a global problem, a vaccinated UK is not as effective in a half vaccinated EU as new mutations will spring up and potentially we are back to square one.

We need to vaccinate some six billion people from a standing start so of course there are going to be production and supply issues as well as uneven distribution given every country has a different health structure.

Personally, I think a bit less hysteria would be welcome. I’m just pleased we have a variety of vaccines as they came along much sooner than I thought they would. From now on in it’s just a production and logistics problem and that will be solved with time.