dave_blue12
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Oh well never mind
Political relations between UK-EU
- Thread starter Ric
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blueparrot
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The reality is whether you wanted brexit or didn’t this government signed a shit deal that is damaging Britain and those that are defending this government and their shit deal are letting them get away with it. Because they think it’s an attack on brexit and Britain. It isn’t it’s knowing we have signed a damaging deal. The government know that which is why they are trying to re neotiate it bit by bit.
You are desperate to defend the country being damaged because you think it’s still about brexit or no brexit.
Just to say the people who have done Britain down are those who believed the Brexit lies. The pro-UK people are those who battled to stop Brexit.
(If someone is still willing to put their head above the parapet to say "Brexit is done, get on with it", I'm afraid I have to join in the subsequent fusillade.)
(If someone is still willing to put their head above the parapet to say "Brexit is done, get on with it", I'm afraid I have to join in the subsequent fusillade.)
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
posted on here earlier today the colossal lack of understanding of WT Regs by the Brexiteers - who thinks Frosty the Showman knows more about Article 16 than the EU? Simple fact is we had no experienced negotiators after 40 years of outsourcing it to the EU and can't really accept that we know nowt ............we don't even know what cards we hold we are that shit
Brexit: 'Serious consequences' if Article 16 triggered, warns EU
EC Vice-President Maros Sefcovic says the move would lead to instability in Northern Ireland.
www.bbc.co.uk
bluethrunthru
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UK’s Brexit losses more than 178 times bigger than trade deal gains
Exclusive: All trade deals combined worth less than 50p per person a year, analysis of government figures shows
www.independent.co.uk
Saddleworth2
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No. Just someone that was mistaken and normally can’t admit to the mistake. You still think it was in the best interests of the UK?
Metal Biker
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Yes, it was. :) *emphasis on the 'was'.*
But has since been handled exceptionally poorly by a Conservative Government that only sought to satisfy one section of society, the hard brexiteers, not the soft leavers or the accepting remainers who wished to keep trade links open, but with the refusal of naysayers backing the initiative to leave to overturn it, i'm not in the least bit surprised things have turned out like they have. Had other like yourself promoted leaving the EU with a deal that kept our current trade arrangements, but sacking off the political associations (which the EU themselves offered us) instead of pushing the "Stop Brexit!" narrative, public furore would not have deteriorated into the toxic environment that it became with "sides" appearing, thus leading to the Tories gaining the required majority to push their version of "Brexit" that eventually came about.
This may come as a shock to you, but there were/are many of us who would have been quite satisfied with the "soft brexit" (*cough* EFTA membership *cough*), eg staying in the single market but out of the customs union, both those who voted to remain and leave alike, but as soon as the toxic extremist Hard Brexit Leavers and Stop Brexit Remainers from both sides took over the debates narrative, it became a war of wills and only one side was going to win out.
As it happened the Hard Brexit Leavers won, and here we are. We had a chance to square this all away in 2018, but none of the extremist leavers and remainers wanted compromise. They wanted it their way. Leaving the EU was the only option a nation constantly at odds with the direction the EU was heading could feasibly take. That was becoming obvious (similar to the Scottish Independence debate) But would you choose an option to also cut Scotland off economically from the UK and the EU to become solely independent? I doubt it, and many of us on leave didn't advocate that either, (*cough* EFTA membership *cough*) but nobody wanted to listen to the rational side of the debate, it was "total separation!" or "reject leaving entirely!" Oh if only a few more rational voices were heard and respected eh...
(To the "usual suspects", don't @ me, I won't bother responding to you :D )
Saddleworth2
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Hello mate. Nice to hear from you again :-)
I agree with you that blame should be put at the feet of the Conservative government and Johnson in particular who has rammed through an agreement that harms the UK. The hard Brexit won because England gave a mandate to Johnson to do just that. Nothing to do with 'extremist remainers' mate. But at least you are big enough to admit that it damaged the UK.
In terms of Scotland, I don't see us ever being fully independent like the UK wants to be. More for me which Union do we want to be part of. I am pretty sure we would have a far greater determination of our future as part of the EU. But thats for another thread.
Metal Biker
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Don't get used to it, you're one of the few in this cesspit excuse of thread I still have time for. :)
How the Tories have handled our leaving arrangement has been what's damaged the UK, not the decision to leave the EU itself. Staying in under the current arrangements would have also further damaged the UK, hence why they were screaming out to leave in the first place.
I don't begrudge the Scots for wanting to distance themselves from Westminster and don't regard such action as meaning hatred for the UK union itself, merely that it has run its course and is no longer suitable or appropriate for the interest of the Scottish people. Naturally, there are many detracters of this opinion who suggest that Scotland leaving the UK means they hate Scotland. Welcome to the leavers world! When you express any desire to leave a union, you become a leaver, regardless where you are from.
There will always be naysayers and detractors about such decisions. I publicly and repeateldy, stated that I wanted to leave the European Union and rejoin the European Free Trade Association. Many others shared this same view, was one supported by the EU itself as it kept trade links between the UK and EU open, but sadly, the "Reject all Europe!" crew were not interested. I had hoped that more of the rabid remainers would join our cause but this did not materialise. They MUST accept some of the responsibility for creating that toxic atmosphere which fuelled the public's desire to "want it over with" though. Nothign will change my mind on that aspect. Though not wholly responsible, they did play some role in where we have ended up.
As I say, I gave up caring in 2018/19. We are where we are and I still advocate for EFTA membership as the best logical solution that would go a long way towards satisfying the majority.
Saddleworth2
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You have been consistent in pushing for that mate and there is no doubt we would be in a better place than now if that had been the solution. We are in a different world now so the only direction is forward. The Union might still have a chance if the tories are kicked out at the next election and Labour or a centre left coalition can run on a manifesto that the majority of the country can get behind. I don't have high hopes of that but a boy can dream....
Take care.