Politicians are incompetent... aren't they?

[hilts]

If the only warning being sent is ‘I’m angry,’ and the vehicle for that warning is a party with no serious policies or moral compass, it risks strengthening something much worse than the status quo. History is full of protest votes that went too far and ended up setting the house on fire.

If Reform is the protest vote of choice, then it’s not just Westminster that’s in trouble, it’s public standards. When we start mistaking shouting for strategy, chaos for change, and recklessness for rebellion, we stop being a frustrated electorate and start being complicit in the farce. Reform isn’t a message to the system it’s a declaration by some voters that they have given up on serious solutions and are now willing to trade credibility for noise.

I'll add that if someone says something daft and ill-thought-out, they’re going to get a response. That’s not censorship, it’s consequences.

I believe j gave you a reason why people may do it not that they necessarily should. Anyhow if it means dodgy fuckers get in tte gamble failed, if it means the current big two worry and maybe change then it worked. And that's if you believe the current lot aren't dodgy.

Arguing about which of the two main parties are the worse when there are so close together doesnf seem worth the effort.

We have risk averse politicians and voters unfortunately.

 

[BobKowalski]

The thing is though Bob there are going to be millions of people who are that sick and tired of the current parties that they will switch their votes.... so what is going so wrong?

There has to be something fundamentally wrong in our system that drives so many people to think like this.

People hate their country so much that they will vote to destroy it? Sounds a bit bizarre. I know we had a go with Brexit and promptly went all Italian with six Prime Ministers in as many years, including one that came second in a two horse race with a lettuce, but you would have thought we have learnt our lesson from that sorry episode.

 

[hilts]

No there doesn’t. People are fucking spoiled rotten. They have no idea how good they have it. Instead, social media brings them stories daily of people who have it “better” than they do, who got things they didn’t, and stories of who to blame. And those with shall we say less developed critical thinking skills, or no understanding of historical context, rail against the unfairness of it all.

It's no surprise that it's people doing okay that say stuff like that, some people in both our countries will have pretty shit lives. You may think people need to man up while the wealth gap widens and our planet gets destroyed but thats your view.
There are plenty of places I could drop you but I wouldn't be calling them spoilt fuckers if I were you:-)

 

[BrianW]

People don't realise things can get much worse than they are now!

For some people, changing governments is like changing soap powder. Brand A didn't work, so I'll try Brand B. If that doesn't work, I'll try Brand C. And if that doesn't work, I'll try washing my clothes in sulphuric acid—that should shift the dirt!

Reform has no answers! What they will do is focus public anger on other working class groups - immigrants, asylum seekers, black people, the disabled, gays, school teachers, whoever. The target doesn't matter. Just select one (or more) and blame them for everything!

This is a tried and tested methodology. It's what Hitler did. Nothing is solved, but people have a safety valve for their anger.

Meanwhile, the plutocratic criminals will fill their boots. They will pay less tax than ever, even if it means dismantling free health care. They will attack the rule of law so they can govern by decree. (Trump is doing this!) They will attack the concept of human rights so that you have no defence against whatever they decree.

If you imagine that a bunch of multimillionaire, tax-dodging nihilists have your interests at heart, you are beyond deluded.

 

[BlueHammer85]

People don't realise things can get much worse than they are now!

For some people, changing governments is like changing soap powder. Brand A didn't work, so I'll try Brand B. If that doesn't work, I'll try Brand C. And if that doesn't work, I'll try washing my clothes in sulphuric acid—that should shift the dirt!

Reform has no answers! What they will do is focus public anger on other working class groups - immigrants, asylum seekers, black people, the disabled, gays, school teachers, whoever. The target doesn't matter. Just select one (or more) and blame them for everything!

This is a tried and tested methodology. It's what Hitler did. Nothing is solved, but people have a safety valve for their anger.

Meanwhile, the plutocratic criminals will fill their boots. They will pay less tax than ever, even if it means dismantling free health care. They will attack the rule of law so they can govern by decree. (Trump is doing this!) They will attack the concept of human rights so that you have no defence against whatever they decree.

If you imagine that a bunch of multimillionaire, tax-dodging nihilists have your interests at heart, you are beyond deluded.

Yep, how can some just not get this!

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

People don't realise things can get much worse than they are now!

For some people, changing governments is like changing soap powder. Brand A didn't work, so I'll try Brand B. If that doesn't work, I'll try Brand C. And if that doesn't work, I'll try washing my clothes in sulphuric acid—that should shift the dirt!

Reform has no answers! What they will do is focus public anger on other working class groups - immigrants, asylum seekers, black people, the disabled, gays, school teachers, whoever. The target doesn't matter. Just select one (or more) and blame them for everything!

This is a tried and tested methodology. It's what Hitler did. Nothing is solved, but people have a safety valve for their anger.

Meanwhile, the plutocratic criminals will fill their boots. They will pay less tax than ever, even if it means dismantling free health care. They will attack the rule of law so they can govern by decree. (Trump is doing this!) They will attack the concept of human rights so that you have no defence against whatever they decree.

If you imagine that a bunch of multimillionaire, tax-dodging nihilists have your interests at heart, you are beyond deluded.

No matter how many times this is written out, it will never be listened to by the “soap powderists”.

They think they’ve hit rock bottom and are lashing out, not knowing that what they’re actually doing is going to make their lives much worse.

They’re also egged on by the “they’re all the same” people who dilute the debate and are nihilist in nature as they believe whatever happens that we’re screwed.

They will only really understand this if the number of the soap powderists becomes large enough for their “protest” vote to elect a government and they get to experience the pain first hand.

You only need to look in the Trump thread to see even the most ardent of the U.K. based alt right posters taking a step back and realising how dangerous Trump is being.

And yet, they still post in U.K. politics threads yearning for the same change here. It’s quite the juxtaposition.

 

[BrianW]

Brexit is the perfect working example.

It was going to solve everything! But above all, it was going to stop immigration.

How did that work out? Oh, we have more immigration now than before Brexit.

But no doubt it's all the fault of the WEF, the Magic Bunny, Davos, Tony Blair, or 'Marxism'. If only Brexit had been done 'properly', eh?

 

[stonerblue]

Call me old fashioned, but voting for a party whose leader is a strong supporter of Russia, a country that is hostile to the United Kingdom and has committed crimes and acts of aggression on British soil is an act of treason in these perilous times.

Frankly, how any self-respecting patriot can bring themselves to vote for Reform is beyond me.

Don't forget the terrorism

 

[BigJoe#1]

People hate their country so much that they will vote to destroy it? Sounds a bit bizarre. I know we had a go with Brexit and promptly went all Italian with six Prime Ministers in as many years, including one that came second in a two horse race with a lettuce, but you would have thought we have learnt our lesson from that sorry episode.

Debatable to suggest that people HATE their country just because they are totally 100% dissatisfied with the status quo. But I think I get your point.

Just because people don't like what they're being given and don't fancy more of the same and are desperate for change does not mean they hate their country.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Brexit is the perfect working example.

It was going to solve everything! But above all, it was going to stop immigration.

How did that work out? Oh, we have more immigration now than before Brexit.

But no doubt it's all the fault of the WEF, the Magic Bunny, Davos, Tony Blair, or 'Marxism'. If only Brexit had been done 'properly', eh?

It’s the fault of Woke, lesbians and Gary Linekar actually.

 

[hilts]

Debatable to suggest that people HATE their country just because they are totally 100% dissatisfied with the status quo. But I think I get your point.

Just because people don't like what they're being given and don't fancy more of the same and are desperate for change does not mean they hate their country.

They're just making up scenarios now to try and bully you into submission. My favourite bit of fuckwitteey - Yeah like they blame trans for the whole of the west's problems like. Pmsl.

Even Americans, who do nothing but rightfully complain about their politicians ie trump and his **** crew, telling us to stop moaning about politicians we've never had it so good. A new high in self awareness on the politics thread of all.places.

Its like purple haze in here today.

 

[BobKowalski]

Debatable to suggest that people HATE their country just because they are totally 100% dissatisfied with the status quo. But I think I get your point.

Just because people don't like what they're being given and don't fancy more of the same and are desperate for change does not mean they hate their country.

If that ‘change’ is to vote for a party led by a man who openly sides with a foreign State that denounces the UK as an enemy and has conducted hostile acts on our shores then I would suggest they do hate this country, its traditions and its history.

It is comparable to voting for Oswald Mosley in the 1930’s.

 

[BrianW]

The Tories added one and a half trillion pounds to Britain’s national debt in 14 years. More than all governments in 250 years including two world wars. It is now costing the country, every year, 70 billion pounds of taxpayers' money to service that debt. No wonder the country is struggling.

Labour inherited 100% debt/GDP, a weak currency, the highest tax levels in over 70 years and decimated public services.

(Then add 100 billion lost from Brexit and now people don't like the repair bill?)

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Debatable to suggest that people HATE their country just because they are totally 100% dissatisfied with the status quo. But I think I get your point.

Just because people don't like what they're being given and don't fancy more of the same and are desperate for change does not mean they hate their country.

Let me make this simple: if you are "100% dissatisfied with the status quo", your head needs a wobble.

And questioning people's "patriotism" -- whoever does it on either side -- is a chickenshit move, too.

 

[BigJoe#1]

If that ‘change’ is to vote for a party led by a man who openly sides with a foreign State that denounces the UK as an enemy and has conducted hostile acts on our shores then I would suggest they do hate this country, its traditions and its history.

It is comparable to voting for Oswald Mosley in the 1930’s.

So why do you think Reform have so many followers, to the point that they are forcing themselves into the reckoning? Is everybody that thinks like that wrong? That makes a lot of wrong people to be appeased.... or indeed a lot of head wobbling going on as @FogBlueInSanFran suggests.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

So why do you think Reform have so many followers, to the point that they are forcing themselves into the reckoning? Is everybody that thinks like that wrong? That makes a lot of wrong people to be appeased.... or indeed a lot of head wobbling going on as @FogBlueInSanFran suggests.

Because easy solutions to complex problems are much easier for non-experts (i.e. the hoi polloi) to grasp.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Because easy solutions to complex problems are much easier for non-experts (i.e. the hoi polloi) to grasp.

Agree 100% and that is why we have such well rewarded politicians to work it all out for us....

 

[meltonblue]

Agree 100% and that is why we have such well rewarded politicians to work it all out for us....

I wouldn’t say they’re well rewarded.

I don’t think we’ve got a particularly good crop of politicians currently and haven’t for a while now though. At the same time, I think any previous government if you brought them back now would struggle with coping with Brexit followed by Covid followed by Ukraine followed by Trump making America isolationist. That’s a horrendous run to deal with and still try and get growth.

 

[BlueHammer85]

This is who Big Joe all wants us to vote for ...

The politics of Reform UK—despair wrapped in racism

As Reform UK surges in popularity, it’s essential that the left knows what it’s up against and how its vile racism can be beaten.

socialistworker.co.uk

Ex-Reform by-election candidate claims '98 per cent of women lying about rape'

A FORMER Reform Party candidate has claimed most women who say they have been sexually assaulted are being dishonest.

www.thenational.scot

Reform candidates made racist comments and defended Ghislaine Maxwell

Times analysis reveals the extreme views of some of Nigel Farage’s candidates

www.thetimes.com

Reform Parliamentary Candidate Who Shared Racist Content Resigns After Questions by Byline Times

Several Reform prospective parliamentary candidates have promoted conspiracy theories and other questionable content on social media.

bylinetimes.com

 

[hilts]

I wouldn’t say they’re well rewarded.

I don’t think we’ve got a particularly good crop of politicians currently and haven’t for a while now though. At the same time, I think any previous government if you brought them back now would struggle with coping with Brexit followed by Covid followed by Ukraine followed by Trump making America isolationist. That’s a horrendous run to deal with and still try and get growth.

In my world 90 odd grand min and top perks is very well rewarded.