Posh and Posher: Public schoolboys and politics

[kippax_blueboy]

I too was fortunate to be accepted into MGS prior to 1976.
I grew up in a flat over a shop in Harpurhey. I used to get two buses from age 11 to Fallowfield.
I was taught Latin and Greek as well as the usual subjects.
I played for the school football and cricket teams and enjoyed all my time there.
I left at 18 went to Manchester Uni.
The first member of my family to go to university/
I studied Economics and accountancy.

Now one my own sons goes there, I pay full fees and am just glad the school still exists.

MGS celebrates it's 500 anniversary in 2015 and that is something that really should be celebrated.

The school must be the most ethnically diverse in Manchester with children from all social backgrounds.

I would love to see the pre-1976 system with all boy's passing the 11+ being given the chance to go to MGS and schools like them.

 

[TTS]

Says the man who keeps telling us all Muslims are terrorists.

Hahaha.

It's the rank inequality of opportunity I'm concerned about, making a mockery of a supposedly meritocratic country. Not 'I hate them because they're rich'. It's just that someone like me; state educated, (hopefully) going to a good university, is going to have to work much harder to get into a job in something like Politics, than an Eton/Oxbridge toff (for want of a better adjective).

Just want to pick you up on something here. I know it's not really the point you're trying to make, but it's a bit of a personal gripe of mine:

PLEASE can we dissociate schools like Eton from Oxbridge? It's not the same thing!

I was lucky enough to get a place at Oxford doing PPE (I graduated last year)....and I worked VERY hard to get it. I don't come from a well-off background, both of my parents are teachers in state schools. Yet all I get now is 'well you must be some upper-class d*ckhead'. I swear that at least 60% of people, after they've found out I went there, say 'f*kin hell must have cost you a bomb, that!'...as if Oxbridge is somehow another form of fee-paying private school!

It is of course true that Oxbridge still disproportionately favours Old Etonians etc, but that shouldn't mask the fact that you still have to get there on merit!

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

The reverse snobbery among the working classes in this country is twice as bad as the perceived snobbery from the upper classes. Some people on here are just so one dimensional and envious. Posh voice+rich parents = hatred/evil/oldboys network.

If you had the same blinkered attitude for someones race/religion you’d be rightly strung up.

BB2, I would be very interested in what pidgeonhole you would place me into
Passed the 11+ went to a grammer school
Mother was head of an old peoples home
Father was a manager in a factory
I am now an investigator (i.e. a managerial role) within the public sector.
But I am a Trade Union activist (former Departmental Whitely, Departmental Committee, and now Branch secretary and likely to be Branch Chair after the next AGM), and far too Left on the political spectrum to even acknowledge Nu-liebour as a true Labour party.
I have also known a lot of snobbery while being educated and have known and served with members of the Gentry (landed and titled Gentlemen).
In my experience, it is not the "inverted snobbery of the working classes" that is the worst, but the real snobbery of "New Money"

On the subject of academic selection, I would much prefer that kids were selected on their ability to learn than their parents ability to pay.
Those that are not gifted in the classroom are often the people in society we most rely on, and can demand a very good wage (plumbers, sparks, joiners, roofers etc etc).
What we need to do is find a way to ensure that EVERY child is given EVERY chance to be the best that they can be.

Well firstly I would say that I am very disappointed that a man of your status and education failed so miserably to spell 'pigeon'......anyway I digress.

I agree with you that the most gifted should be given the best opportunities, let us not forget that it was labour who scrapped the 11+, and are still doing everything in their power to scrap it in Trafford MBC.

Where we will no doubt differ is that I respect and except the right for those who have the money to choose where they educate their children, just as they can choose which car they drive, where they summer and where they live. That is the world we live in, you pay your money you take your choice.

Would you have us all living in the same housing, driving the same car and earning the same wage? (Ibelieve this system has proved very successful in Eastern Europe in the past!) It’s human nature to strive for more and wanted better for ourselves. For instance why do you take such pride in being promoted to ‘Chair’ of some god awful trade union? May not be financial gain in it, but it’s the status and you know it.

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

The reverse snobbery among the working classes in this country is twice as bad as the perceived snobbery from the upper classes. Some people on here are just so one dimensional and envious. Posh voice+rich parents = hatred/evil/oldboys network.

If you had the same blinkered attitude for someones race/religion you’d be rightly strung up.

BB2, I would be very interested in what pidgeonhole you would place me into
Passed the 11+ went to a grammer school
Mother was head of an old peoples home
Father was a manager in a factory
I am now an investigator (i.e. a managerial role) within the public sector.
But I am a Trade Union activist (former Departmental Whitely, Departmental Committee, and now Branch secretary and likely to be Branch Chair after the next AGM), and far too Left on the political spectrum to even acknowledge Nu-liebour as a true Labour party.
I have also known a lot of snobbery while being educated and have known and served with members of the Gentry (landed and titled Gentlemen).
In my experience, it is not the "inverted snobbery of the working classes" that is the worst, but the real snobbery of "New Money"

On the subject of academic selection, I would much prefer that kids were selected on their ability to learn than their parents ability to pay.
Those that are not gifted in the classroom are often the people in society we most rely on, and can demand a very good wage (plumbers, sparks, joiners, roofers etc etc).
What we need to do is find a way to ensure that EVERY child is given EVERY chance to be the best that they can be.

you make a very good point about "new money" snobbery. the real upper classes are now largely irrelevant. The area I live in is Hart District in Hampshire and is reckoned to be the second best place in the UK to live (after Elmbridge in Surrey). there is a fair bit of money in the area and most people are ok but there is a significant proportion of utter twats who seem to feel that because they have earned a few quid they are somehow better than the masses - I hate it

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

BB2, I would be very interested in what pidgeonhole you would place me into
Passed the 11+ went to a grammer school
Mother was head of an old peoples home
Father was a manager in a factory
I am now an investigator (i.e. a managerial role) within the public sector.
But I am a Trade Union activist (former Departmental Whitely, Departmental Committee, and now Branch secretary and likely to be Branch Chair after the next AGM), and far too Left on the political spectrum to even acknowledge Nu-liebour as a true Labour party.
I have also known a lot of snobbery while being educated and have known and served with members of the Gentry (landed and titled Gentlemen).
In my experience, it is not the "inverted snobbery of the working classes" that is the worst, but the real snobbery of "New Money"

On the subject of academic selection, I would much prefer that kids were selected on their ability to learn than their parents ability to pay.
Those that are not gifted in the classroom are often the people in society we most rely on, and can demand a very good wage (plumbers, sparks, joiners, roofers etc etc).
What we need to do is find a way to ensure that EVERY child is given EVERY chance to be the best that they can be.

you make a very good point about "new money" snobbery. the real upper classes are now largely irrelevant. The area I live in is Hart District in Hampshire and is reckoned to be the second best place in the UK to live (after Elmbridge in Surrey). there is a fair bit of money in the area and most people are ok but there is a significant proportion of utter twats who seem to feel that because they have earned a few quid they are somehow better than the masses - I hate it

And the 'new money' types come from the working classes....hey presto! Old money tends not to live in WAG mansions or have the latest cars, they are not 'flash' in anyway.

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

you make a very good point about "new money" snobbery. the real upper classes are now largely irrelevant. The area I live in is Hart District in Hampshire and is reckoned to be the second best place in the UK to live (after Elmbridge in Surrey). there is a fair bit of money in the area and most people are ok but there is a significant proportion of utter twats who seem to feel that because they have earned a few quid they are somehow better than the masses - I hate it[/quote]


And the 'new money' types come from the working classes....hey presto! Old money tends not to live in WAG mansions or have the latest cars, they are not 'flash' in anyway.[/quote]


Not quite right. There are less of the old money types around, some don't have the money anymore and some are smart enough to have joined the rest of us. There are still a fair few around though who still think of us as "little people" like Edward for example.

 

[brass neck]

[Where we will no doubt differ is that I respect and except the right for those who have the money to choose where they educate their children, just as they can choose which car they drive, where they summer and where they live. That is the world we live in, you pay your money you take your choice.

Would you have us all living in the same housing, driving the same car and earning the same wage? (Believe this system has proved very successful in Eastern Europe in the past!) It’s human nature to strive for more and wanted better for ourselves. For instance why do you take such pride in being promoted to ‘Chair’ of some god awful trade union? May not be financial gain in it, but it’s the status and you know it.

I would have everyone starting off in life with the same money. Is it really fair that because half the cabinets grandfathers made a lot of money then that can see their direct descendants running the country and making extremely harsh decisions about the lives of people who's grandfathers weren't involved in the slave trade or were high up in the British Raj. etc etc etc. I don't object to anyone working hard, earning money and paying for nice cars, schools and houses, but its this idea of Cameron and his type gaining power ultimately off the hard work of his descendants. Is it really fair that a small group of people who went to a certain school can have more Tory MPs than the whole houses of commons have Conservative female MPs? Everyone should start off with the same chance, if you work hard, get to a posh school, get a great political education off your own graft...fair enough.

 

[JULES]

[Where we will no doubt differ is that I respect and except the right for those who have the money to choose where they educate their children, just as they can choose which car they drive, where they summer and where they live. That is the world we live in, you pay your money you take your choice.

Would you have us all living in the same housing, driving the same car and earning the same wage? (Believe this system has proved very successful in Eastern Europe in the past!) It’s human nature to strive for more and wanted better for ourselves. For instance why do you take such pride in being promoted to ‘Chair’ of some god awful trade union? May not be financial gain in it, but it’s the status and you know it.

I would have everyone starting off in life with the same money. Is it really fair that because half the cabinets grandfathers made a lot of money then that can see their direct descendants running the country and making extremely harsh decisions about the lives of people who's grandfathers weren't involved in the slave trade or were high up in the British Raj. etc etc etc. I don't object to anyone working hard, earning money and paying for nice cars, schools and houses, but its this idea of Cameron and his type gaining power ultimately off the hard work of his descendants. Is it really fair that a small group of people who went to a certain school can have more Tory MPs than the whole houses of commons have Conservative female MPs? Everyone should start off with the same chance, if you work hard, get to a posh school, get a great political education off your own graft...fair enough.

one day , when you grow up, you will see the idiocy of post like this for what they are. perhaps if you stopped looking for excuses as to why some "working class" people dont get on in life you would see the wood for trees. Oh, I come from a working class background and have been homeless on a few occasions carrying my worldly posessions in a rucksack and I would never blame anyone but myself for my many failures in life. Would you?

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

Would you have us all living in the same housing, driving the same car and earning the same wage? (Believe this system has proved very successful in Eastern Europe in the past!) It’s human nature to strive for more and wanted better for ourselves. For instance why do you take such pride in being promoted to ‘Chair’ of some god awful trade union? May not be financial gain in it, but it’s the status and you know it.[/quote]

I would have everyone starting off in life with the same money. Is it really fair that because half the cabinets grandfathers made a lot of money then that can see their direct descendants running the country and making extremely harsh decisions about the lives of people who's grandfathers weren't involved in the slave trade or were high up in the British Raj. etc etc etc. I don't object to anyone working hard, earning money and paying for nice cars, schools and houses, but its this idea of Cameron and his type gaining power ultimately off the hard work of his descendants. Is it really fair that a small group of people who went to a certain school can have more Tory MPs than the whole houses of commons have Conservative female MPs? Everyone should start off with the same chance, if you work hard, get to a posh school, get a great political education off your own graft...fair enough.[/quote]


one day , when you grow up, you will see the idiocy of post like this for what they are. perhaps if you stopped looking for excuses as to why some "working class" people dont get on in life you would see the wood for trees. Oh, I come from a working class background and have been homeless on a few occasions carrying my worldly posessions in a rucksack and I would never blame anyone but myself for my many failures in life. Would you?[/quote]


Jules is right, you haven't really thought this through have you? I started off in a council flat but worked my way up. I will hopefully leave my kids much better off than I was when I started. If they follow me in their careers, they will leave their kids in an even better position etc. Under your system My kids would get nothing so what would happen to my dosh?

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

[Where we will no doubt differ is that I respect and except the right for those who have the money to choose where they educate their children, just as they can choose which car they drive, where they summer and where they live. That is the world we live in, you pay your money you take your choice.

Would you have us all living in the same housing, driving the same car and earning the same wage? (Believe this system has proved very successful in Eastern Europe in the past!) It’s human nature to strive for more and wanted better for ourselves. For instance why do you take such pride in being promoted to ‘Chair’ of some god awful trade union? May not be financial gain in it, but it’s the status and you know it.

I would have everyone starting off in life with the same money. Is it really fair that because half the cabinets grandfathers made a lot of money then that can see their direct descendants running the country and making extremely harsh decisions about the lives of people who's grandfathers weren't involved in the slave trade or were high up in the British Raj. etc etc etc. I don't object to anyone working hard, earning money and paying for nice cars, schools and houses, but its this idea of Cameron and his type gaining power ultimately off the hard work of his descendants. Is it really fair that a small group of people who went to a certain school can have more Tory MPs than the whole houses of commons have Conservative female MPs? Everyone should start off with the same chance, if you work hard, get to a posh school, get a great political education off your own graft...fair enough.

So you don't think Cameron has worked hard? Would it have not been easier for him to be a 'trustafarian' type? Go on a 10 year gap year and open a huice bar in Chelsea? No, he went out, got educated (got very good grades-unlike Harry/William/Charles for example) and worked hos way up the political ladder.